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Topic: Can someone from PBS please explain this to me

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Subject: Can someone from PBS please explain this to me
Date Posted: 7/21/2010 11:37 PM ET
Member Since: 5/13/2010
Posts: 564
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OK So I posted asking for deals on several series I am looking to get or need books to finish. I was jumped on for asking for deals on WL's books. I can't ask for deals anywhere on these forums for WL books, yet several (5) of my WL books have been offered in "post your WL books" threads. I've been waiting for a while now being at #1. So because they are posting them in those threads I'm missing out on them because they aren't being posted. How is it "not far to ask for WL" but it's OK to post what WL books you have in a thread instead of posting them to the WL? To ME thats not far at all. I could have had 5 of these books by now had they been posted to PBS instead of being offered in threads.

 

So how is one far and the other not? Some have said I'm "jumping in line". A lot of these books I have seen offered several times and have yet to be posted to PBS. If they were I would have them by now, even the ones I'm not #1 in line for.

Personally if I can't post asking for deals on a series (some are WL) then others can't post them in threads letting others get them when they are WL and I'm sitting here waiting at #1.

Laura M. (LMM) - ,
Date Posted: 7/21/2010 11:50 PM ET
Member Since: 12/12/2005
Posts: 524
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If you want an answer "from PBS", use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the page to contact TPTB.  They don't routinely respond to forum postings.

Date Posted: 7/21/2010 11:51 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Because if they allowed people asking for their WL books to be posted to them ahead of line then the forums would be loaded with posts begging people to post WL books to them.  Whereas the WL threads are a way for people so save on postage and send more books.  For some offering multiples in the WL threads is the only way they can send books out because sending them singly gets expensive. The WL offer threads are open to anyone to check out and seize the opportunity of the WL books being offered. The WL threads actually started because forum regulars got tired of posting books to FIFO and having them time out repeatedly on inactive members while other forum regulars were there and ready to accept right away. 

Date Posted: 7/21/2010 11:54 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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You are actually allowed to  post looking for WL books that you are #1 in line for.  I suggest you start hanging out in the genre forums and make some buddies. A lot of forum regulars check the WL of other forum regulars for the reasons I mentioned above: to save on postage and not have the WL offers sit unclaimed for days on end.  I recently had one go through 4 wishers when I had a stack of other books to mail.

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 12:05 AM ET
Member Since: 5/13/2010
Posts: 564
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So because they want to save on shipping it's OK. Seriously it's not far either way you look at. I recently had 5 highly WL'd books and posted them ALL to my shelf. While 3 of them went through 3-4 people I still posted them like I should have. I DO hang around the genre forum and check the new WL posts regulary (about 3-4 sometimes more a day) and I ALWAYS miss them OR the person who did post it doesn't edit their post. I actually found one today for 4 of the books I'm looking for. When she PMed back she said she mailed them off over a week ago.

I'm trying to save someone on shipping by asking for a whole series or most of one.

I think I'll be writting PBS about this. This is totally not far. Whats the point of a WL if you're going to always be passed while others "jump the line" by getting deals because the poster wants to save on shipping.

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 12:20 AM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2009
Posts: 35,352
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OK So I posted asking for deals

I thought you weren't allowed to ask for deals on WL books?

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 12:26 AM ET
Member Since: 5/13/2010
Posts: 564
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Apparently No I can't. But It's OK for the book poster to offer it in a thread to others who may or may not have it on their WL. While I sit here waiting for the books to be posted to PBS so I can get it on my WL. At least 3 of the books on my WL I would have had by now if they would have been posted to PBS even one that I am not #1 in line for ( I am number 4 in line and have seen it offered 5 times).

 

ETA: When I say "seen it offered" someone else has already snagged it or the person didn't edit their post when I PMed saying I would like the deal.



Last Edited on: 7/22/10 12:28 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/22/2010 12:40 AM ET
Member Since: 12/31/2009
Posts: 3,995
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There are thousands of people posting books here every day, and very few people posting regularly on the forums. Just because you see someone offer of a WL book you want in a forum, that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there ready to post the same book to FIFO.



Last Edited on: 7/22/10 12:41 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 7/22/2010 12:48 AM ET
Member Since: 5/13/2010
Posts: 564
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I totally understand that. But here I'll give am example.

I have had Midnight Lover on my WL since 6\25. I am currently 4 of 7. 1 book was posted last week. The book has been offered 4 times in deal threads in the last week\week and a half that I have seen. Personally if the book poster can post it and offer it, then the WL'er can post asking for it. Either way someones "skipping the line".

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 1:09 AM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 4,412
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"Personally if the book poster can post it and offer it, then the WL'er can post asking for it. Either way someones "skipping the line"."

Well, one difference I can see, Esther, is that there is a finite number of WL books that someone might have to offer at any given moment, but a (theorectically) infinite number of people who can be wishing for those sames WL books.  So the WL book thread becomes overwhelmed with many people *asking* & a proportionately much smaller number of *senders* offering.  Does this make sense?  Maybe we need a separate *asking* thread that potential senders can peruse?

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 1:42 AM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2009
Posts: 35,352
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I think a lot of people do what I do-  because of the multiple thread, I will buy wl books at fol sales that I do not read, simply to post to get them in the system.  If I had to send them out singly, I wouldn't do it.  Just this week I bought a dozen wl books and posted them in the thread.  So I think a lot more wl books are put in the system because of the multiple thread, which makes the lines move faster.  So I think there are more positives than negatives.

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 7:32 AM ET
Member Since: 8/25/2007
Posts: 13,134
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I think your error was in asking for deals on WL books, and yes, that will get your "jumped on".  I know there are some members who specifically will not post to anyone who has done this after being reminded that it's not allowed.    I had to laugh when you said you've had a WL book on your list for all of around a month, are #4 of 7, and seem impatient.  Many of us have had WL books on our lists for YEARS, are #1, 2 or 3 of however many, and are still waiting. 

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 8:05 AM ET
Member Since: 4/23/2007
Posts: 9,493
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The wish list multiples thread is a sanctioned thread by the site owners-there are specific rules for posting to that thread.. There are also specific rules on wish list books in the book bazaar, one of them being that one cannot offer a POSTABLE wish list book in the book bazaar just to "jump the line". However, UNPOSTABLES can be offered in a variety of ways in the book bazaar. Also, the book being offered could have been a different, non-wishlisted ISBN version of the wish list book.

As far as the genre threads, Im usually not in them so I can't comment on that.

You also may want to get involved in some Games. That's a great way to get wish list books without waiting forever and have some fun at the same time.

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 8:13 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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You also have the right to offer your WL books in that thread to save on multiples. I know for me (and many others)-I have a very tight postage budget.  So using the WL thread to offer books in allows me to send out more books. Which is good for the system. 

And it sounds like you are probably goign to get those WL books soon anyway since you are high up on the lines.  I have books that have been on my WL for 2+ years. I'm sure some have been posted to others in line behind me because of people posting to buddies and the WL threads.  I have other books to read, no big deal.  I don't let myself build up a lot of credits os if I go awhile without a WL offer then I just don't mail any books out. 

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 8:14 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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I have to say that I do agree somewhat that the demand for a high # of multiples in the threads is gotten a little out of hand. I don't think people should demand that only people who want more than 5 contact them. That seems a little extreme.  I usually have enough credits but it's rare that anyone has more than 2 that I want.

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 8:52 AM ET
Member Since: 5/13/2010
Posts: 564
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OK I'm going to try and explain this a little better here.

When I am #4 on a list and have been #4 on said list for however long, be it a month or 2 years. I pop into a genre thread and see said book offered 4-5 times in a week\week and a half, yet I'm still #4, that means that people who don't have said book on their WL are getting it. There for, those of us who do have said book on their WL are left waiting for someone to post it.  It really shouldn't matter how long someone's had the book on their WL especially when said book\s are being offered all over the forums and not being posted. If there are 5 copies being thrown around in the forums and someone #3 on a WL wouldn't you think that the person who is #3 deserves to get the book too? I'm not understanding how people can think it is right for people who do NOT have a book on their WL to be getting a book because it's been offered when there are people waiting with it on their WL. Be it because the poster wants to save money on shipping or not. Personally if I don't have the money to ship I either don't post the WL book\s, or put my self on hold until I do have extra money.

BTW I am by no means upset I was "jumped on" so please don't think that.

As for the games I've checked a few out and honestly I am not author\character savvy enough to be playing these games. Unless there are other games some where I haven't found or don't know about. Whenever I have looked it is always about authors or characters.

ETA: OK So I was looking at the wrong games. Either it's way to early and the coffee hasn't kicked in or I'm totally confused on the games. I will have to go back and re-read it all again once, I've had more coffee.



Last Edited on: 7/22/10 9:03 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/22/2010 9:17 AM ET
Member Since: 4/23/2007
Posts: 9,493
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OK, Im not up on the genre thread rules, but from what I can see it is evidently ok to offer specific genre wishlist books in that forum alone. You can send a PM to the poster of the "red sticky" thread at the top to find out exactly what the genre thread posting rules are. As far as the Book Bazaar, those rules are clearly posted at the top of the forum in the "red sticky" thread.

Im guessing that the genre forum threads are a little different since presumably only people interested in those genres will be going there.

As far as the multiples thread goes, multiples can be anything from 2 books on upward. It's up to the poster. And I also find (from my own experience) that although someone may say "please order a minimum of X books" which is allowed in the multiples thread only (not for standard requests) usually someone will be flexible in order to move the books, if you are polite and beg!

And as far as Games are concerned, we all played our first game at one time. And most of us are now addicted to Games! Give it a try! The standard elephant swap is very simple, and usually based on a theme. For instance right now Im playing a game which involves books from certain countries. I like books set in those countries, so I joined up knowing I would have a book to use in the game.



Last Edited on: 7/22/10 9:19 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/22/2010 9:20 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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Well there are people winning WL books not on their WL in the games forums-should that not be allowed as well?  (and I'm not trying to bash you just trying to point out another way WL books are being traded).  Same with the virtual boxes.  Frequently the books I pull out of the Erotica VB aren't on my WL. 

You might want to check out the virtual boxes.  There's one for every basic genre.  There's no stealing.  So if you pull a book out of the box you get to keep it until you decide to put it back in the box.  I find that I frequently get to ship multiples through there as well as players are somewhat considerate of that when selecting books.   You control the amount of books you want to trade in there by offering books that people are looking for and by the # of credits you put in the box.  The credits are to cover your books incase you don't ship for some reason.

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 9:22 AM ET
Member Since: 4/7/2008
Posts: 15,690
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Personally if I don't have the money to ship I either don't post the WL book\s, or put my self on hold until I do have extra money.

But that's your choice, Esther. Everybody swaps and uses the system however they can. Some members have tight money for postage and can only swap in multiples or deals and we must respect them too. The WL threads and the Games forum came out of the need of some members to swap books using different ways and as this is a very minimal number of PBS members, it makes some members happy without affecting the majority of the swaps that go FIFO.

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 9:25 AM ET
Member Since: 4/7/2008
Posts: 15,690
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I also second Kathy's and Mary's suggestion to check out the Games forum. I see from your WL that you like paranormal, which is one of the most popular themes for swaps there. There's a paranormal virtual box and there are always paranormal swaps.

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 9:36 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,597
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To my way of thinking, either you think it's fair or you don't. If you don't think people jumping ahead of the WL queue is fair, why do you want to participate in something like these deals at all? Is it only unfair because you can't seem to get in on it? If you think using FIFO and waiting your turn is the fair way to go, then just wait your turn. If the book was posted 4 times this week, it surely isn't going to be long before you are offered it--most PBS members don't even read the forums where the "deals" take place, so surely every copy posted hasn't been part of a deal! The thing is, we can't see the big picture, what's happening behind the scenes. 

These books belong to the person who is posting them--and PBS maintains (and I agree) that they have a right to do with that book whatever they like, whether that might be posting the book to FIFO, posting directly to a buddy, or offering the book as part of a set to save shipping money. The books are theirs.

I pretty much stick to using FIFO myself, as I do believe it's the fairest way to do things. That said, I do occasionally have a buddy or two who will post a book directly to my WL "out of turn" and I'll do the same. It doesn't cause me huge jolts to my conscience or anything. For the most part, I'm content to wait my turn. Just a couple of months ago, I received a wishlist book that had been on my list for four years. 

I don't have time to sit in the genre forums waiting for books that might be on my WL to be mentioned...I would rather spend my time actually reading books--so I can then post them for someone else to enjoy and thus cut down on that book's wishlist. I really would not want PBS to make "begging for wishlisted books" acceptable, because sure as heck it would clog the forums up even worse than they are now.

Edited to add: I used to do a few of the wishlist "games" but got burned pretty bad a couple of times. I had some hardcover books wishlisted that I wanted for my Keeper shelf, and the person who got my name was supposedly sending those. I ended up getting the Mass Mkt Paperback versions, which I'd already read. This was several years ago before the games were so highly regulated. But it still left a bad taste in my mouth and I just stay away from deals and games altogether now.

Cheryl



Last Edited on: 7/22/10 9:40 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/22/2010 9:56 AM ET
Member Since: 1/20/2007
Posts: 1,898
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I think your assumption that if the WL multiples thread weren't there you would have the book by now is faulty.

I posted a bunch of WL books to that thread last week. If I had to post them FIFO, I would not have posted them at all. Either way, if one of those books was on your WL the same result has occurred - you do not have the book and are in the same place in line.

Also, it's not necessarily true that these people didn't have it on their WL. They may have been behind you. Or, their WL may have been on hold (if so, it doesn't show up in the # of people wishing).

Hopefully whoever got the books will read them and put them back in the system. Maybe even FIFO so you move up in line.

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 10:09 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,185
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If you ask for Wish List books, that's asking people to offer it to only you and that isn't giving everyone in the line a fair chance at the book.

If I offer a list of books in the Multiples thread, every single person on that Wish List (or not)  has an equal opportunity to ask for it, including you.  Just because one person beats another doesn't make it unfair to the ones that are too slow.  It does bypass the Wish List, but more often than not that book wasn't getting posted to FIFO anyway and the activity in the forums is so minimal  to the overall club activity that those threads have negligible effect on the Wish List activity. 

The only way the site admin can answer you is if you send in Feedback through the Contact Us button. They don't read the Forums.

eta: The WIsh List threads in the Genre Forums really have never been sanctioned. Bookshelf advertising has only ever been allowed in the Bazaar by the rules. But they've known about them, haven't seen them to cause any problems or really have enough activity to affect the system, and they saw members with a need for it so they've let them be. 



Last Edited on: 7/22/10 10:14 AM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/22/2010 10:48 AM ET
Member Since: 5/13/2010
Posts: 564
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I did use the contact us button to write to the Admin.

The only reason I'm trying to get the books in one of these posts is because I've seen so many of my WL books posted in them. Seems I may get it faster that way. A book I recently put on my WL that there were no copies in the system and I (as far as I know) am the only wisher, has been offered a few times.  I know that if someone has their WL on hold it won't show up, I usually keep my WL on hold if I don't have any credits and I do not want to buy any. But I have credits right now and more coming in so I took my WL off hold hopeing I will get a few. And for those who are thinking "well if she keeps her WL on hold how does she know that the books not being posted" I take my WL off hold at least once a day. If it's been posted I am assuming once I turn my WL back on the book will be requested to me? Then I will decided if I want to buy the credit to get the book which I've done a few times, others I have just passed on the book. But I have since slimmed my WL down to only books that I'm looking for right now, not books I will want in the future. I just placed those on my RL or I keep them on my WL but keep them on hold if there are a lot of wishers so I don't loose my place.

As far as me thinking its not fair because I'm not getting the books is incorrect. I am also thinking about the thousands of members who do not use these forums and do not know there are deals being made (I've said that already). Those members are also loosing out on books they have been WL'ing as well. I do take advantage of peoples 2 for 1 etc deals (not WL books). I've received a few books I probably never would have thought about getting but did because I could get 3 books for 1 credit and that person only had 2 books I wanted. It's allowing me to reach out of my normal genre's without feeling as though I'm wasting credits on something I may or may not like.

 

Oh and for the record. I was offered a WL book a week and a half ago, the member used PBS DC and it says it's been delivered, P.O. says they don't have it, mailman says he put it in my box which I KNOW is B.S. ( I was outside the day it says he "delivered" it and he handed me my mail). So at this point I'm waiting for the system to mark it lost. I know the system works. I guess I will just deal with it and do my best to do as I preach and that is always posting MY books so they go FIFO.

Date Posted: 7/22/2010 11:02 AM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,185
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 If it's been posted I am assuming once I turn my WL back on the book will be requested to me?

So you are thinking that the book is held until you take your WL off of Hold to be offered to you? That would be an incorrect assumption. When a WL book is posted it is offered immediately to the first person in line for the book that isn't on Hold. There is no way the system would hold a book indefinitely for someone on Hold. That is the whole point of the Hold feature, you are saying you don't want it right now and it should be offered to the next person.

It sounds like you may receive more offers on your WL books if you change the way you manage your Wish List.  If you are not the first person in line, you will continue to move up the line while on Hold, but once you are in the first position you must remove the Hold to have any chance at getting the book offered to you. You must not have the Hold on at the time the book is posted in order to get that book offered to you.

If you are #1 in line for books, you can post asking for those books in the Book Bazaar, there is even a thread someone set up for that. As long as you only ask for those and indicate you are 1st in line you are fine, but you can't just ask for a bunch and say you are #1 for some so you are justified for asking for them all.

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