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Topic: No Time Out!! Frustrating...

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Subject: No Time Out!! Frustrating...
Date Posted: 8/1/2007 6:55 PM ET
Member Since: 2/6/2006
Posts: 376
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Last Edited on: 3/25/11 8:24 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/1/2007 7:10 PM ET
Member Since: 3/4/2007
Posts: 4,537
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You've got to be kidding!  Who in their right minds decided that time out was was a bad thing?  I say continue with time out, but give it a different name.  Set up a special area for kids who need to take a breather or something.  It's a time honored educational tradition, taking an old idea, giving it a new name and calling it revolutionary. *g*  A law against time out?  Good grief!  What state is this, Tracy?

Date Posted: 8/1/2007 7:34 PM ET
Member Since: 7/21/2007
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We call take a break!

Date Posted: 8/1/2007 8:10 PM ET
Member Since: 2/6/2006
Posts: 376
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Last Edited on: 12/9/08 10:36 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 8/1/2007 9:43 PM ET
Member Since: 3/4/2007
Posts: 4,537
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Florida, it figures. Home of the you can't touch a kid even though he's beating the crap out of you.  I got my degree from UCF.  I HATE Florida with every fiber in my being.  As bad as Ohio is, I'll take it over FL any day of the week.  I never say we left FL, I tell people I escaped. 

Reading for 5 might work.  The kid gets time out and gets to look at a book in the process.  Win/win.

Hang in there, Tracey.

Date Posted: 8/2/2007 7:10 AM ET
Member Since: 11/6/2005
Posts: 642
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More of our "legislated research" coming into play, I'm sure.  I teach in Florida, where supposedly everything you do in the school should be research-based - I'd like to see the research on this one!  Is there an article you can post a link to?  If you teach in Florida - and I have for 33 years - you learn to be VERY creative!

Date Posted: 8/2/2007 8:41 AM ET
Member Since: 3/4/2007
Posts: 4,537
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Amen, Molly!  Ohio is also supposedly researched-based, yet curiously enough, no one ever seems to be able to produce the research behind the more harebrained ideas they toss at us.  Or, the research for is sketchy, while the research against is well documented.  Whatever happened to working for the best interest of the children? *sigh*

Date Posted: 8/2/2007 9:18 AM ET
Member Since: 9/28/2005
Posts: 226
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We've been calling it "taking a break" which was actually a  suggestion from the autism team.  Most of my special ed. class are on behavior plans which use "time out."  I must have blocked it out at the time, but at the end of the year I found a lengthy form that we're supposed to fill out every time we use a time out.  I'd have to use one of the extra hands they think teachers sprout when they enter the classroom. 

Date Posted: 8/2/2007 9:21 PM ET
Member Since: 5/6/2007
Posts: 208
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We have to fill out incident reports about everything. Fortunately, I teach for a school that is only an ED/Conduct Disorder school, so we get to do a bit more, like restrain kids. But we have to document up the ying yang. Of course, my home school practically has a police station of its own on campus, lol.

When we have a kiddo freaking out, we stop him and insist that he takes a "reflection moment". We train our kids to know that at that time they must go relax somewhere and think of a logical reason for their actions or if nothing else think of their reasons for their anger and be able to explain them calmly to a staff member. After our talk, they can usually go back to work, altho they have not earned points for that period on their point sheet. They can also earn "positive change", which is no recurrences of that behavior for the rest of the day. Works out pretty well, because we have a reward period at the end of the day. For the last 15 minutes of the day they can earn computer or game time if on level. They really try to get level time.

Date Posted: 8/3/2007 9:59 AM ET
Member Since: 7/3/2005
Posts: 55
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This is why I love being in a private school now.  I teach in Florida as well and I told my husband (as he was looking forward to me going back to work after DS started Kindergarten) that I was not going back into public school.  Thankfully, there was an opening at the school I'm at now and I love it there.  I can actually just teach again. 

I agree with the others who've suggested already.....call it a "read for 5 minutes" time or a "write about it" time and have them write/or draw in a journal or something for 5 mintues......maybe give them a folder game, etc. to work on.

My guess is that many teachers abuse time out (and it does happen) and kids end up sitting much longer than appropriate because the teacher is glad to have them out of his/her hair and the kid is left just sitting and not learning.  I assume that's the reason for this new law.  Giving them something academic to do while you get them out of the situation for a few minutes should be your ticket here.

Hang in there!

Date Posted: 8/3/2007 1:49 PM ET
Member Since: 9/28/2005
Posts: 226
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Lorene,

my system is very similar to yours tho my kids are low functioning so not able to verbalize reasons.  Each has a behavior card and can earn a "smiley" or a "frown" for each activity of the day.  I haven't had great success with food reinforcers, but the ones that want it also get a small treat for following directions.  Chocolate or butterscotch chips have worked the best, and are nice and tiny to avoid sugar overload.  If they earn 3 out of 4 smiles in the AM, they get to watch a video for 15min. before lunch.  Process is repeated in the afternoon.  My more severe students need immediate reinforcers/consequences, but I use this system for all so there's quick visual for me and parents as to how they did that day. 

Deliberate physical aggression is an immediate supervised "break" until the child is calmed down and ready to have "quiet hands and/or body."Other inapproriate behavior (screaming, name-calling, throwing, breaking, or ripping classroom materials) is a verbal warning and if behavior does not improve, a "break."  I also use social stories in my room which are simple one page paragraphs written in the first person that talk about how to handle and behave in different situations.  They were developed for autistic kids, but I think they'd be good for any child.  I like the idea of giving the child something to do while they're in the break.  Think I'll laminate some of the social stories this year for that purpose. 

I also use a timer so the child can track, and so that I keep track of when time is up.  I had bought one of those fancy expensive timers that lights up like a traffic light, but it was too involved to use quickly on the spot.  A kitchen timer worked just fine, but tended to get misplaced.  This year, I'm getting a small timer for me and my aides, and two for the room so we'll always have one when we need it!

Date Posted: 8/3/2007 4:53 PM ET
Member Since: 5/6/2007
Posts: 208
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Very smart with the timers. I have about 10 of them and we are still always looking for timers. In my class we do social skills at least  twice a week. We practice such things as ignoring skills etc. The kids love it and they get rewards for when they can follow the directions such as ignoring, which is very difficult for ED kids. I also use fake dollars or tickets and have store once a week. Some in my school do it daily, but thats too much for me. Besides I use store to not only teach delayed gratification but also I teach real life money skills, such as banking and checking accounts. My kids just love to write checks, lol.  The parents like it because now the kids know that they cant get money out of the bank unless there is money in the bank. One mom lets her kid handle balancing her checkbook. It works great even when I had 2nd graders.

Date Posted: 8/3/2007 5:57 PM ET
Member Since: 9/28/2005
Posts: 226
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Ten timers!!  Thinking about it that's probably realistic for my room.  Too bad I didn't put it on the individual list of supplies. lol

Date Posted: 8/6/2007 6:29 PM ET
Member Since: 7/27/2006
Posts: 13
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Oh my goodness!  I can't believe they would make such a silly law!  They then wonder why kids have such a lack of respect for adults and authority and committ such horrible crimes!  UGH!  I use a "cool down" chair.  I tell some kids that it seems their body needs to take a little break and cool down in the blue chair.  I wonder if you'd even be able to do that though.  How frustrating!  Good luck, everything will work out for you!

Date Posted: 8/6/2007 6:49 PM ET
Member Since: 5/6/2007
Posts: 208
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I have a sectional sofa in my classroom. There is a space between the back of one side and the front wall. I keep my reading pillows and beanbags there. When my kiddos are really upset, I tell them they need to relax and wouldnt they like to go behind the couch and relax on the pillows? They always do, because it is very rare that I allow someone back there. (Usually just when a kiddo isnt feeling well and is waiting to be picked up). That works nice for me and them.

Thats my frustrating thing: Why the H*ll do parents send their kids to school sick. I have one parent who is a licensed nurse (now a stay at home mom) who sends her kid no matter how sick he is. One of my other students caught the flu from him no less than 3 times. Everyone including me caught it at least once. I finally had to have my principal call her and demand a doctors release. He came back the next day with a release, but he was still sick. What is wrong with people?!!

Lorene

Date Posted: 8/6/2007 9:38 PM ET
Member Since: 9/28/2005
Posts: 226
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Lorene, I share your frustration with the kids coming to school sick.  Some of my parents get downright hostile if they're called to bring a child home.  Diarrhea was a recurring issue in my room this past year.  Parents were so uncooperative w/taking care of and picking up their children, I contacted the health dept over the summer to get advice on our policy.  The health dept. doctor said our policy is sound.  I have documentation now, and a policy written up, and if Madame Principal will allow it, I'd like each parent to sign and agree to it.  None of the students involved "ever get sick at home."  Two parents told me "He/she only has diarrhea for you girls," with a little hee-hee.  Madame Principal was suggesting that these kids had "nervous colitis" d/t school anxiety.  A little investigation always ended with medical causes one way or the other.  Believe me, my kids are a little too relaxed at school.  It got really ugly after a few parents brought doctor's notes saying child wasn't infectious.  Most of my kids are in diapers, so if it leaked all over, we were sending them home for a bath.  They could return to school as soon as cleaned up.  One parent got so ugly, I was a little scared. It seems that these parents consider school their break time, and do not want to be bothered. 

It's interesting that your kids like the confined space between the sofa and wall.  It soothes several of my autistic kids to sit in a Christmas tree box lined with a blanket with a bean bag over the lap.  Kind of like bundling a baby.  Even the ones that are verbal usually can't articulate what's wrong, so if they start to get agitated, we bring them to the box.  Two even started doing it on their own. 

Date Posted: 8/6/2007 10:31 PM ET
Member Since: 12/23/2005
Posts: 2,999
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What did "they" suggest you do instead?  Nothing suggested, huh? Why am I not surprised.

Date Posted: 8/6/2007 10:41 PM ET
Member Since: 11/29/2006
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Is this just a Florida law or is it that way everywhere now?

Date Posted: 8/7/2007 12:03 AM ET
Member Since: 5/6/2007
Posts: 208
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I know in the case of my kiddos, most of them really act out at home and so it is a break for the parent/guardian. However, we have a packet of forms that we send home the first day, one of which has our policy about sick kids. We require them to sign it and it is kept on file. We just point to it and tell them sorry you must pick up your kid. If its a situation where a kiddo wets himself, which happened last year as a response to get attention from parent, we insist that they come down or child will be placed at home school which has a bathroom in all rooms. That usually solves the problem.

Get your principal to back you if possible.

Date Posted: 8/7/2007 9:15 AM ET
Member Since: 9/28/2005
Posts: 226
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Lorene, Hopefully Madame Principal will back me this year.  I had one case where child smeared poop all over.  MP (Madame Principal) wanted her to stay at school because she thought child was doing it to get to go home. (probably true) The mom came in and wiped her down in the BR w/ paper towels, and MP could not see the problem with her staying at school.  After some heated discussion, she finally agreed that the child should go home.  I wonder if she'd want her own children in a class w/ a child who had BM smeared all over herself w/ no bath.  When school nurse found out, she really advocated for my class.  She let MP know that illness could spread from my class to the whole school.  Policy was then, child goes home for bath can come right back.

Then, parent claimed their dr. said child should not have to go home.  Dr.'s office recommended parents seek an advocate.  That's what led me to the health dept.  Hopefully MP will agree to the signed policy on file.  If a parent complains, MP sides w/parent instead of looking at the issue and doing what's best for the individual child and those around him/her. 

 

Date Posted: 8/7/2007 9:27 AM ET
Member Since: 3/4/2007
Posts: 4,537
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Susan, do you have a signed exchange of information forms for the doctor?  We try to get them on all of our kids, that way we can communicate with the doctors directly and not rely on the parents for information in these cases.  I can't believe any doctor would suggest a child who'd covered herself with excrement and was only wiped off, should be allowed to remain in a classroom without a full bath.  I'm sure that not only wourld  the health dept. back you 100%, but any parent advocate worth their salt would as well, especially since you're not sending the child home as punishment, but only to have a bath and then return to school once she's clean. MP needs to grow a backbone and gather up some common sense.

Date Posted: 8/7/2007 4:38 PM ET
Member Since: 5/6/2007
Posts: 208
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Susan C.- they always side with the parent. I really think that when one becomes a principal that not only do they forget what its like being a teacher, but their soul dies.

Date Posted: 8/7/2007 5:40 PM ET
Member Since: 9/28/2005
Posts: 226
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Sandy and Lorene,  Thanks for your comments!  Not all the parents have been willing to sign releases.  One got ugly with the school nurse when she asked to speak to the dr. for a diarrhea policy.  Nurse explained she was not talking about the child or parent, just needed some guidelines.  I'm guessing that the parents said to the dr. something like "Every time she has a little BM, they send her home for a bath."  This family has had an advocate before.  It was before my time, but I'm told and from the conference notes, she was an angry parent of her own disabled child, and used the conference to rant and rave.  Again with MP and stupervisor having no souls, and probably in their contracts to never, ever support a teacher, I want to be prepared.  The health dept. dr. was very supportive, so I have that documentation which should carry enough weight.  School nurse has been absolutely wonderful, but hearing the advocate thing, she started to worry about possible legal implications.  As you said Sandy, we're not denying her access to school, we're just saying she needs to be clean so to be safe for herself and others around her. 

This year, I'm going to remind everyone repeatedly that I don't want my kids to miss school unless it's necessary.  My little crew lose ground over a long weekend.  Feel like some parents harrass the teachers who are trying to help their children the most.  Of course the message from administration is the teacher is always wrong.

Date Posted: 8/7/2007 7:38 PM ET
Member Since: 3/4/2007
Posts: 4,537
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Seems like someone should remind principals that if their staff members are always wrong, it reflects poorly on the perceived quality of their leadership. 

 

Date Posted: 8/8/2007 10:57 PM ET
Member Since: 5/6/2007
Posts: 208
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Yea, youd think that wouldnt you. But you know they just say that the staff doesnt listen, or some other excuse. Leadership?? There is supposed to be leaders not just gripers?? LOL

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