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Topic: unpostable vent

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Subject: unpostable vent
Date Posted: 8/28/2009 4:22 PM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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Grrr!  I was offered a WL book.  The gal accepted, and, after posting the book into the system, after accepting my request, sends me a PM to tell me there in underlining on the text pages and do I still want the book?  Uh, no, I don't want to pay a credit for an unpostable book!!!!  Why on earth post it when you know it's unpostable?!?!  Clearly she knew it was unpostable or she wouldn't have sent that message.  Of course she accepted my request, so my credit is gone.  I asked tptb to cancel the transaction.  Grrr!

Vent over. 

Geri (geejay) -
Date Posted: 8/28/2009 4:32 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2008
Posts: 9,094
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Julie, you could have told the person you didn't want it and tell her to cancel so you don't lose your #1 spot on the WL.  It can be cancelled up until a label is printed.

I hope it works out for you.

Rick B. (bup) - ,
Date Posted: 8/28/2009 4:49 PM ET
Member Since: 11/2/2007
Posts: 2,625
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OK, so I'm confused. I used to think you couldn't post with any writing in it, unless it was a textbook. Someone said if a novel was used as a textbook, and you got the person's OK in a PM, that was OK:


Is that wrong?

Date Posted: 8/28/2009 5:32 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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If this is a textbook, then the sender followed the correct procedure.  You have to accept the request in order to PM a receiver, and when you are able to PM them, you're supposed to disclose the underlining and ask if they still want the book.  If not, you (the sender) should cancel the request so that the receiver doesn't lose their place in the FIFO queue.  A sender CAN ask for a credit on something that is not a textbook & has underlining (i.e. is unpostable), but it's better if they offer it generally in either the BB, or a designated WL thread in one of the genre related forums, rather than putting it on FIFO and asking the receiver if they still want the book.  In any case, senders should be the ones to cancel WL requests so that receivers don't lose their place in line.

Date Posted: 8/28/2009 5:36 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,695
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yep, the sender followed the rules....that's a good thing!!!

Date Posted: 8/28/2009 7:35 PM ET
Member Since: 5/29/2007
Posts: 13,347
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The sender did not follow the rules.  This is not a text book, work book or cookbook.  I did tell her to cancel, but she has not responded.

Date Posted: 8/28/2009 7:53 PM ET
Member Since: 6/25/2007
Posts: 5,637
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TPTB recently changed (or clarified) the rules to state that anything technically can be a textbook.

From Help Center: What's the definition of a textbook: "Actually, the way the system and rules are designed, it does not matter what the "objective definition" of a textbook is.  The club members decide this - as long as the rules in the Book Condition Criteria for 'Swappability' at PBS are followed.  See the explanation and examples below.

If a member considers her book a textbook she may Post it with underlining/highlighting/writing on text pages, according to the "textbook exception" in the Book Condition Criteria for 'Swappability' at PBS; BUT since the textbook exception in the Book Condition Criteria for 'Swappability' at PBS require her to contact the requestor and obtain PM consent to the book's condition, she won't be in the position of sending a "stealth textbook" to someone who doesn't expect to receive one."


Edited for typos and formatting

Last Edited on: 8/28/09 7:55 PM ET - Total times edited: 4
Date Posted: 8/28/2009 7:57 PM ET
Member Since: 5/14/2009
Posts: 6,852
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she followed the rules

Dear Librarian- I saw that there is a "textbook exception" that allows textbooks to be posted if they have underlining or highlighting or writing in them.  How do you define a textbook?  What if I have a novel that was used in a class?  - Hesitant in Hattiesburg

Dear Hattie,

The "textbook exception"  has three parts, really.  Each one is very important, and together they help the textbook exception work well in the club.  First, the textbook exception allows textbooks to be posted with writing/highlighting/underlining (no non-textbooks may be posted with such markings). Second, the textbook exception includes the stipulation that the sender write a Personal Message to the requestor describing the book's condition and third (and most important!), the sender must receive a Personal Message in reply from the requestor, agreeing to the described condition, BEFORE sending the book.  If the requestor does not respond, or declines the book in its condition, the sender must NOT send the book - the sender must let the system cancel, or cancel it by clicking "cancel order".

This requirement of a PM exchange with the requestor accepting the book means that it is not possible for a sender who is following the rules to send a "surprise" highlighted/written in book to a requestor.   For that reason, it does not matter what the sender considers a textbook - if it has markings that will allow it to be posted only if it is a textbook, then the sender is bound by the textbook exception rules to describe it in a PM, and must receive a reply PM consenting to its condition, before sending it.  In this way, matters will naturally sort themselves out: the math textbook that a requestor would expect to have writing in it will be accepted when it is described, while the novel that is read for a class will probably NOT be accepted when it is described.  The sender needs to decline if the requestor refuses the book in its condition.  At some point (after enough refusals from requestors), the member who is trying to send a novel as a textbook will realize that since it is not generally perceived as a textbook, it will probably not be possible to send out a marked-up version of that book here. 

Hope that helps clarify this issue! You can read the textbook exception in the Help Center, of course, in the Help doc "Book Condition Criteria".

Date Posted: 8/28/2009 8:42 PM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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I can understand the aggravation, because it is a letdown to be offered a WL book, only to find out that it's not in the condition you should reasonably expect it to be.  In a very technical sense, she didn't actually break the rules, because that's what the textbook exception is for, and PBS wants members to match wishing members to the books they want.  As long as receivers know what condition the book is in & there are no "surprises", PBS is fine with books that may be technically unpostable being swapped for credits.  They've said as much in the newswire.  One person's junk is another's treasure, so to speak.  BUT, that's not an across the board attitude, and it can create a false sense of expectation that you've finally been granted that WL book you've been waiting forever for.  Add to that the extra time delays of inboxing back & forth when senders may not log in every day & respond to inbox messages quickly, or be unclear that it's their responsibility to cancel those orders - hopefully in a timely manner.  It will add extra time & aggravation to the wait time on something you were probably already waiting long enough for, and there's a greater potential for other problems.  Some of us have massive TBR piles to keep us busy & don't mind delays, and some of us don't.  This is why I think it's best to post open offers for unpostable WL books (that most people won't consider a textbook) in the BB or a corresponding genre related forum.  It's a much more efficient and relatively problem & irritation free process than posting those books FIFO and then clarifying book condition after they've been requested.  Just MHO.

Date Posted: 8/28/2009 9:19 PM ET
Member Since: 6/25/2007
Posts: 5,637
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Oh, I agree, Kim. I haven't personally had to deal with the textbook exception when it comes to novels, but I get the frustration, and even though it's up to the posting member's judgment whether it's a textbook or not, there are still some books that I can't see how anyone would consider a textbook.

I do have some novels that were used as textbooks in my college classes, but I won't post them, even though I technically can. I don't want the hassle, and don't want to put others through that hassle either.

Date Posted: 8/28/2009 11:30 PM ET
Member Since: 6/13/2009
Posts: 433
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I had a novel with over 700 members on the WL that a friend gave me, but it had random words/phrases highlighed throughout.  It was still readbale.

I posted it on Book Bazaar and offered it as a freebie on ordering something else from my shelf.  It was snapped up really quickly.   I felt this was a more 'correct' way of delaing with an unpostable WL book.

Today, I recieved a WL book but it is stained on 2 pages. My first RWAP.  I PMd the sender but they're not happy and want proof of the stains saying it is in a good, readable condition.  I undestood that stains make it unpostable regardless of whether or not the stain affects the text.... I need to investigate it a bit more.   

Date Posted: 8/29/2009 12:27 AM ET
Member Since: 9/13/2007
Posts: 2,520
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I can understand the frustration too, but they did follow the rules. Since they have followed them so far you should have no problem declining and getting them to cancel so you can stay at the head of the wishlist line.
Date Posted: 8/29/2009 12:32 AM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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It's one of the "sneaky" ways around the rules, IMO.  But not much you can do about it since TPTB have decided that anything can be declared as a textbook.   I've had it happen, and fortunately, they did PM me to ask and I asked them to cancel.  In these types of situations, you can always request the sender to cancel the request.  There are a lot of books out there with writing and highlighting and underlining in them.  I really dislike trying to read a book with these problems.  Sorry that it happened.


Date Posted: 8/29/2009 12:59 AM ET
Member Since: 11/4/2006
Posts: 795
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I like Kim H's idea. Best way to handle that.

Date Posted: 8/29/2009 11:34 AM ET
Member Since: 7/18/2009
Posts: 60
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I've posted several "non-traditional" textbooks and all my PM conversations have always led to the requestor snatching it up. It's too bad you were disappointed Julie, but the poster should be the one to cancel the transaction if the book is not in the condition you prefer. If they don't respond back or cancel the transaction, it should cancel out on its own in a few days anyway and you'll be back in line. :)

Date Posted: 8/29/2009 11:51 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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Ruth, I look at it more like the PBS team was trying to give the rules a little more flexibility, because if you do interpret them to the letter in every instance, there isn't a lot of it there.  I'm sure that they meant to simply include books that were used academically, but weren't *technically* textbooks, but not that hard-to-find romance novel that some previous owner went through and underlined their favorite passages in:P  When you post something FIFO, the rules aren't supposed to be any different for a rare WL book than they are for anything else.  The "golden rule" still applies.  I know that some people think they should be more flexible with a hard to find book, and they're right, someone out there is going to want it as long as it's readable.  But again, they should know before the request & acceptance process even starts that they're requesting an unpostable book - unless it's a texbook, and is therefore explicitly covered under the textbook exception.  Again - and I'm well aware that I'm overstating the point:P - if we have a rare 1st edition copy of Moby Dick or blah-blah-blah, we need to assume that everyone on the WL wants a copy that meets the book condition guidelines, and post an open offer in the BB or the appropriate genre related forum.  As long as you only ask for one credit for the book, this is perfectly acceptable.  Some people might think that it's more time consuming than posting FIFO and clarifying condition after the request, but actually, the opposite is more often the case.  If there are a lot of wishers, even unpostables tend to get snapped up quickly, and as long as you accurately describe the condition, everyone knows what they'll be getting before making the request.

Last Edited on: 8/29/09 11:56 AM ET - Total times edited: 1