Ok, I know this subject has been done and done and done...but, I need to whine and no one at my home understands.  Received a book yesterday from a new member (Joined January 2008) and it should not have been posted, it has water damage affecting pages 161 - 276 (they are wavy, texture changed, sound crisp, some watermarks).  I contacted the sender and sent a nice PM...thanked her for sending the book but, there was a problem, stated what the issue was and that the book was unpostable due to PBS guidelines. I stated clearly that I wanted my credit refunded.  (In fact copy and pasted a suggested PM on another topic here and adjusted for the specific damage)

She responded within 24 hours saying that she didn't knowingly post a book that was damaged and that it must not have been bad damage. She went on to say that she'd return my credit if I'd return the book.  I PM'd back stating that she would need to send me a credit for the unpostable book and one to cover the postage.

Now (this is the whine part)...today she PMs and states that it sounds like my major issue is that I can't post the book for a credit and then she says the book is in "readable" condition and that I should just read it and send it back and then she'd give me my credit.  It is book 2 of a series and I'm not ready to read it yet because I'd like to have the entire series before I start it.

I've thought about letting R&R know about this, I know they can't intervene but, kind of think that there is a new member that doesn't feel that she has to adhere to PBS guidelines.  I also think there needs to be a change in the system so that if you mark a book Damaged By Sender that they don't automatically get the credit.  If it was damaged by the USPS I wouldn't request my credit back...this book was damaged prior to sending, the wrapper was dry.

Thanks for letting me whine!!!

From the Help Center:

You are not obligated to return the problem item, but if the sender gives you an extra credit or postage to do so, of course you may.  Unofficial problems are noted during the process of marking a book received (on the survey portion of the Book Received page).

If the sender wants the book back they must refund your initial credit (for sending a damaged book) and another to cover the cost of postage.

And again, from the Help Center under book condition:

Overall Condition:

• No damage at all from water or other liquid
• Not soiled
• No stains (exception for cookbooks--see below)
• No mold

Unless you can say that the wrapper was also water damaged which likely meant the book was damaged en route, she posted an unpostable book.  Doesn't matter that it is still readable, water damage of any kind is not allowed on posted books.  PM her again, kindly direct her to the posting guidelines and ask again for the credit to be returned.  You are not obligated to return the book, that's your choice.  If she refuses to return the credit regardless of whether you choose to send the book back, contact R&R.  She violated the rules and they should know about it.

The only problem with having the credit not being sent when the book is marked RWP is that there are people who would do that just to get their credit back.  Then there would lots of complaints about "I sent a great book and didn't get my credit".  I think you need to report it to R&R. I don't know if they can do much but at least they'll be aware that she's posting bad books and then telling people to read them and send them back.

Ok, it seems the conscensus is that I should let R&R know that she is posting "unpostable" books and then telling people to send them back...I think that is what I'll do...I thought I should but, needed to know that others agreed with me.

Mary L - it was a sample of a PM regarding an unpostable book to be sent to the sender that you had posted on another discussion that I copied and pasted and then adjusted as to the problem, that I used. 

When dealing with situations like this I refer frequently to the Help Center so that I know that I am doing everything according to guidelines.

Thanks for all ya'lls support.

It's situations like these that make me wish that the credit would sit in limbo whenever a book is reported as RWAP until the problem is resolved and one person agrees to "release" the credit to the other.  If there's no agreement, then the credit would be kept by PBS.  I know that there have been a couple of members I've dealt with that I would much rather have seen PBS kept the credit than know that they got it. 

Yeah Danielle I think that would be a good idea. 

I sent the information to R&R so they can be aware of what she is doing.

The senders latest response....." I will credit you for the book when I receive it in the mail." 

I let her know that I had sent this information to R&R because posting an unpostable book and then saying it is in "readable" condition and then refusing to return my credit unless I return the book is not the spirit of this site.

This actually sounds remarkably similar to my recent experience, though my book was highlighted, not water damaged.  I love Danielle's credit idea!

I love Danielle's credit idea too! There needs to be some deterrent of sorts to keep people from knowingly sending out unpostable books. Even if it's done from ignorance of the guidelines, then that in itself would be a good lesson to the sender in the future. Maybe they could even get volunteers to be the arbitrators if this is such a huge task to take on (wishful thinking again).

Ugh, what a drag!  That new member needs to be seriosuly straightened out about the rules of this site.

Did you send her the parts about the rules? Tell her when she posted this book she agreed that it wasn't water damaged and in fact it was. So, she broke the rules of the site!

Instead of telling her that refusing to return the credit without receiving the book back "is not the spirit of this site" I would have stated that it is breaking a second rule, because it's not just the spirit of the site, it is in the rules that she is to return your credit without getting the book back unless she wants to compensate you for the return postage. You might send an addendum to your feedback and tell them you mistakenly stated it this way, and could they possibly point out to her that it is not a "spirit" but a 'rule" that she do this? Don't knw if they will or not, since they state that they won't intervene.

I had a similar exchange (with a new member who had joined in January) just a week or so ago.  It helped to cut and paste the Help docs directly into the PM, even though it's long, just like Charlie pointed out. 

It feels like we've had a rash of newbies who think it's about "readability" rather than "postability" around here.

Yeah... and from some not so new members too.  I just got two books, now they were part of a 2 for 1  deal in the bazaar, one has a definite wet stain, coffee, tea or soda on the edge of about 50 or so pages, and the other one is cleaved 2 large sections of pagesof the first half of the book have come away from the binding.  Now in her defense, the one book every copy I ever have seen, even the library copy has had this exact same problem with the spine... so shoddy materials at best, I just want to be able to finish the darn book as the library copy was missing pages.  But the other book and the stain... this was something on her shelf, to be ordered.  And she's been a member for almost 2 yrs.

I felt guilty about marking RWP because they are readable, and they were a bazaar deal.... so I didn't, I'll read them and eat the credit, but still makes me leery of ever ordering anything from her again..