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Topic: Unresolved RWAP

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Subject: Unresolved RWAP
Date Posted: 8/18/2009 7:26 PM ET
Member Since: 4/27/2006
Posts: 5,005
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I had a RWAP, frankly the book stank of smoke. I have a requestor condition about this. My mailbox stank, the envelope stank and the book was placed outdoors for over a week and never lost the stink. I recycled the book and envelope.

 I have tried pming her politely and all I get is "I don't smoke".

Now, I have finally given up. My question is, if a person has a unresolved RWAP on their account, isn't that a gamble? In the future, this could happen again and with my book unresolved, wouldn't her credibility suffer? She feels that it will prove her right, as it happened before and she was in the right.  I don't follow her logic. She says she is glad to had a unresolved RWAP, because it makes her look blameless.

Is it not in the best interest of all swappers to resolve conflicts and keep our account "clean"?

Date Posted: 8/18/2009 7:31 PM ET
Member Since: 9/24/2007
Posts: 453
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My understanding is that multiple unresolved RWAP's is going to red flag her account to the attention of PBS.  I believe they would review all communications regarding the transactions but what their exact  criteria are for taking some action I don't know.

Date Posted: 8/18/2009 7:40 PM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2007
Posts: 2,728
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The Help Center says that if someone has an unresolved RWAP it will count double against them- once for the problem, and once for not resolving it.  There are very specific steps that you are supposed to take, which include PMing the sender about the problem and requesting your credit returned, and giving a time limit for the sender to respond.  If they do not respond or resolve the problem, then you can mark the transaction as unresolved.  She apparently does not understand the system, because this is NOT good for her, and you are correct, if she has further problems, her account will probably be looked at.  You could try PMing her and pasting in the relevant HC passages in a last-ditch effort, if you haven't already marked the transaction unresolved.

Is it possible that it's not the book itself that was exposed to smoke, but the packaging?  I have seen people post about their mail reeking of smoke due to their postal delivery person smoking in their vehicle.  Just wanted to throw that out there as a possibility. 

Date Posted: 8/18/2009 7:47 PM ET
Member Since: 4/27/2006
Posts: 5,005
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I believe that she could be entirely innocent and somehow the USPS got the book smoky. How, I do not know.

I was sincerely trying to help her by asking her to resolve it.  I pm'ed the HC section on RWAP's.

At first, I would have been ok with an apology. Her lack of responsibility for it leads me to believe she is a problem waiting to happen and letting her off the hook is enabling.  I used to hate to do RWAP:, but now my loyalty is to PBS in general. I do give the person every chance to resolve it.

Date Posted: 8/18/2009 8:09 PM ET
Member Since: 12/21/2007
Posts: 1,642
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The USPS could have gotten the book smoky if her mailperson smokes. Or if yours does. There is a member on here who has said her mailperson smokes like a chimney while delivering mail.

Date Posted: 8/18/2009 8:18 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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Susan--

If you've asked for a specific resolution (i.e. your credit be returned) and given a reasonable time to reply (check your credit registry just in case -- sometimes folks refund and don't say anything), you've done all you can.  Marking it unresolved will automatically prompt another email to her from PBS, and, as others noted, count as 2 black marks on her account.

Cheers,

Catt

Date Posted: 8/18/2009 8:18 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,911
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How is your RC worded?

For example, if you request "no books from smoking homes", and if she doesn't smoke, then she would probably send the book.

Is that possible?

Date Posted: 8/18/2009 8:34 PM ET
Member Since: 4/27/2006
Posts: 5,005
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Hello! I am not able to accept books that have been in a smoking environment. Please have the books  without any strong odors at all.  Please make sure they are clean and have no food or coffee residue.  Thanks!  I pass these books on to other members and keep them as clean as I got them!

That is my RC.

Date Posted: 8/18/2009 9:43 PM ET
Member Since: 7/7/2007
Posts: 4,815
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I know there are other threads on this, and I don't want to start any RC wars, but I think "Please have the books  without any strong odors at all." is a bit ambiguous. 

For future, I'd be more specific, i.e. "I am unable to accept books smelling strongly of smoke/lilacs/chocolate/asparagus/whatever"

I do this in my own RCs without a whole lot of declines, and only 1 smokey book.  I get a lot of "my book smells like 'old book', is that ok?"  PMs  :-)

Cheers,

Catt

Date Posted: 8/18/2009 9:49 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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If she says she doesn't smoke then how exactly is she supposed to have resolved this?  Maybe a mail man at some point smoked.  Maybe she has a poor sense of smell and didn't notice a smoke odor.  Although I have to think that if the packaging reaked of smoke then it could have been a postal employee. 

This is why a lot of people (myself included) don't accept any type of smell RCS. Because it may have smelled ok to her or it could have picked up the odor somewhere enroute.

Date Posted: 8/18/2009 10:10 PM ET
Member Since: 7/31/2007
Posts: 2,693
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I'd have to say that if she says she doesn't smoke and that the book did not come from a smoking environment she is within her rights to decline returning a credit....like others have said, the smell of strong odors is subjective and to her it may not have smelled.

Date Posted: 8/19/2009 3:07 AM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Who has the power?  Well, that comes down to what the facts are and what the sender decides to do about it if they are honest.  You definitely have the power to mark a book you receive that you decide isn't within the postability conditions or your RC's as a RWAP.  You also have the power to either request your credit back or not.  The sender has the power to decide that the book did fit the requirements both yours and PBS's and not to return the credit to you.  To make sure your RC's are followed - they need to be clear as glass with no ambiguous words or tests.  Smell is the one thing that varies so greatly among people.  So even though you smelled smoke - she didn't.  And being in a carrier's vehicle where he/she smokes non-stop could cause the book's odor contanimation.   Can't do much about that.  I doubt it happens all that often, but there is one member here who verifies that her carrier does this and contaminates her incoming books.   So under the circumstances the sender doesn't see that she's at fault and has the power to deny you the return of your credit. You in turn have the power to mark the problem unresolved.  PBS won't get involved unless things get ugly, she doesn't respond to reasonable PM's or admits to being at fault and still denies the return.

Please tighten up your RC's.  Short and clear.  Polite but firm. No extra reasons for why (although just mentioning allergies shortly is probably a good thing.).  There are a few threads here on writing acceptable RC''s that don't ruffle feathers and do get the job done.

I've received a few books that I would have sworn had the contents of the ashtray thrown in to the package with the book.   Terrible.  I sympathize with you.  I hope your future trades work out well.

Ruth

Date Posted: 8/19/2009 8:07 AM ET
Member Since: 5/16/2008
Posts: 2,173
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It sounds like it may be a person I ran across. I have a "no current smoker homes RC" as well. I got a book which was a gorgeous brand new HC, but REEKED when I pulled it out of the bubble mailer. I mean, it was as if the book lit up a carton on its way to me. When I sent the RWAP message and requested my credit back, the sender vowed she did not smoke. She did say, though, that when she put it in the mailer, the mailer smelled really smokey to her. I'm not sure why, then, she didn't just use another mailer and save that one for someone without an RC, but she didn't. When I reiterated that this "broke" the RC agreement, she disappeared. No credit returned. So, she gets the "double black marks" but I don't know that I believe they've really slowed her down much. Maybe it was the same person (I don't remember who it was at this point) and maybe they're accruing.

Date Posted: 8/19/2009 8:36 AM ET
Member Since: 7/12/2009
Posts: 177
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I don't think it's likely that the USPS contaminated the book this badly, since it still reeks of smoke a week into its airing out.  My In-laws used to smoke, and when we would visit them (usually a week at a time), we would have to wash anything that could be washed when we got home.  Books and other nonwashable items would be set on the porch for an airing.  Usually a day or two was enough for the smell to dissipate.

If my inlaws gave us a book that had been in their home awhile, it would reek for weeks after we got it home.  I think the book Susan received was in a smoker's environment for a prolonged period.    Maybe the sender is telling the truth when she says she doesn't smoke, but perhaps someone else in the household does.  If it was the envelope that stank,  the sender should have known better than to send a book with a non-smoking RC in a smoke-smelly wrapper.

Date Posted: 8/19/2009 8:52 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,601
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I agree--if the book really stinks that badly, it's likely not a USPS issue.

However, I personally would decline your RC the way it is worded. Firstly, it asks for a book "that have not been in a smoking environment." (I don't smoke, but have no idea if the book has EVER been in a smoking environment.) Secondly, it asks for a subjective judgment that there is "no strong odors." Some people don't have good sense of smell because of frequent sinus infections or various other reasons, so asking them to subjectively put their nose against yours isn't really fair, I don't think.

It sounds like this sender should have just declined your RC. I'm sorry she isn't willing to resolve the issue. All you can do is mark it unresolved and move on and let the PBS system take care of her if this is a bad habit she's in, sending books that violate RCs or unpostable books.

Cheryl

Date Posted: 8/19/2009 9:13 AM ET
Member Since: 4/27/2006
Posts: 5,005
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Thank you, I have changed the words in my RC.

My question was whether a unresolved
RWAP hurts a person or not. MY sender loved that she has a RWAP because she feels it will make her seem more innocent if this happens again.

I did ask for a credit back, but would have settled for an apology of "Gee, I don't know how this happened, but I am sorry it did. The book was not exposed to smoke on my end"  I would then have marked it resolved, as I am a nice person and can see how things happen out of one person's control.

 

Date Posted: 8/19/2009 9:21 AM ET
Member Since: 8/10/2005
Posts: 4,601
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Susan wrote: MY sender loved that she has a RWAP because she feels it will make her seem more innocent if this happens again.

LOL! Say what?? Maybe she's been smoking something ELSE? :-D

How does having an RWAP make you seem more innocent if it happens again?

Cheryl

Date Posted: 8/19/2009 10:03 AM ET
Member Since: 8/9/2007
Posts: 4,058
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My question was whether a unresolved
RWAP hurts a person or not. MY sender loved that she has a RWAP because she feels it will make her seem more innocent if this happens again.

Frankly, she sounds like a total nitwit.  Hopefully she'll continue to be one, won't resolve her RWAPs, and the PBS management will show her to the door soon:P  Unresolved RWAPs don't make you look innocent.  Her reasoning being that if she doesn't admit to making any mistakes she can't be held accountable for them.  She couldn't be more wrong.

Date Posted: 8/19/2009 10:50 AM ET
Member Since: 6/26/2008
Posts: 456
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Susan D. I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you by having an RC in place about smell and still getting a smokey book.

 

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I was going to post something similar in a new thread about my recent RWAP, but maybe someone here can help.  I received a book that I marked RWAP (same one, Cattriona, that I mentioned in a recent thread that you also commented on, just so you don't think I'm getting even more RWAP books, lol).  I nicely PMed the person, explained that these stains did not make the book postable, and that I'd like my credit back and that if they wanted the book back, I would send it back (at their expense according to PBS).  I didn't hear back from them for nearly a week, PMed again, turns out they were in vacation (no problem, understandable, though why wasn't it on vacation hold if they were gone for a week?).  Anyway, they don't agree since they looked over the book and didn't notice any stains but even if there were, it was still postable  since according to them PBS states liquid/water damage only make a book unpostable.  They said I could send it back at my expense if I wasn't happy and get my credit back or just keep the book.  The PM was very polite, but I have NO IDEA what to do.  I want to send a PM back stating that I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree but I don't feel like I should mark it as resolved since I don't feel the stains make it postable (totally not foxing marks either- book is new and these are definately stains).  Lol, I almost wish the PM wasn't polite since then I probably wouldn't feel this conflicted.  Any advice?

Again, sorry Susan that I hijacked your thread.

Date Posted: 8/19/2009 10:50 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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It'll only hurt it if she gets more of them. If this is the only book she's had that's been marked RWP then it'll have no effect on her account. 

Date Posted: 8/19/2009 11:14 AM ET
Member Since: 4/30/2007
Posts: 2,728
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Brenna, you should not mark that transaction as resolved.  The sender is in the wrong here- the posting guidelines DO state that no staining is acceptable or postable, so you were right to mark it RWAP and ask for your credit back.  I would PM her back (politely) and paste in the relevant HC document so that she can see what the posting requirements are, then reiterate that you would like your credit back, and ask for a response by a specific date.  Also you can offer to send pictures of the stains if she doesn't think there were any.  You might also want to mention that per the PBS Help Center, if you do not receive a response and/or have the problem resolved by that date, you will unhappily mark the problem transaction as unresolved in the PBS system.

Good luck- I hope she responds and resolves the problem for you.

Date Posted: 8/19/2009 12:11 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 9,911
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She did say, though, that when she put it in the mailer, the mailer smelled really smokey to her. I'm not sure why, then, she didn't just use another mailer and save that one for someone without an RC, but she didn't.

Because once you accept a book request, you can't see the RCs ever again, until the book goes to your Transaction Archive. If she had a few books to send out, it is entirely possible that she didn't know which one had a smoke RC anymore. Some weeks I have 10 or more books to send out ... and unless I slap a note on the book when I accept the order, I don't know who had the "wrap in plastic" RC, etc.

I would love if PBS made the RC available on the Mailing page.

Date Posted: 8/20/2009 6:22 AM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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  Anyway, they don't agree since they looked over the book and didn't notice any stains but even if there were, it was still postable  since according to them PBS states liquid/water damage only make a book unpostable. 

 

Not really.  Why would they think stains would allow it to be postable?   What kind of stains are they?   Do not mark this as resolved.  Do tell this person (cut and paste relevant Help Doc's".  I knew that when PBS left out the "no stains" in that "Golden Rule" a lot of people would take that to mean that stains were okay. 

Ruth

Ronda (RONDA) - ,
Date Posted: 8/20/2009 9:48 AM ET
Member Since: 3/3/2009
Posts: 415
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I can totally see why this person would be happy with an unresolved RWAP.  The OP will mark the transaction resolved if the sender admits that she was in the wrong and sends the credit.  If she refuses to, then she feels that she is in the right (not admitting that she did something wrong), but ends up with an unresolved RWAP.  This proves to PBS that she thinks she is in the right, if she sends back the credit it proves that she is not following the rules.

Maybe the sender is not being truthful, but maybe the book seemed fine to her and she is in the right.  Some unresolved RWAPs shouldn't be a problem because how does PBS know what the 'truth' is.  I have never seen anything about how many problem transactions cause PBS to act on it.  I would think they would not want that to be known.

Perhaps she has now learned her lesson and will no longer accept RC that relate to smell (as many already do).

Date Posted: 8/20/2009 10:14 AM ET
Member Since: 1/11/2007
Posts: 1,646
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When I've received books requests that indicated "non-smoking only," I've responded nobody in my home smokes, but I can't speak for the previous owners.  I've honestly never noticed a book I've received with a particularly strong smoking smell. 

Could it be that:

a) you have a particularly sensitive nose & notice smoke smells that other don't  or

b) as others have suggested, your mailperson smokes?

If either of the above is the case, then I fear you might frequently run into this type of problem.  As long as the book wasn't damaged, you could have reposted it so you wouldn't have lost your credit.  If the smell bothered me, I might have kept it in a baggie & reposted it as long as the requestor did'nt have non-smoking conditions.

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