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Topic: What's with the entitlement here?

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Subject: What's with the entitlement here?
Date Posted: 7/13/2016 3:29 PM ET
Member Since: 5/16/2008
Posts: 2,146
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I wasn't sure where to post this on the MANY "$3 credits" threads circulating, so I picked to start a new thread. I just don't get what is with the sense of entitlement here. Why do people think it's their RIGHT to sell credits and MAKE money off of PBS? They didn't have that when the site started. They've allowed it and even helped with it for the time being. This is not a "work from home" website. Why do you feel like credit money is your right and due? Yes, it's gone on so long that some members may have joined at a time when they don't remember a time when credits weren't allowed to be sold. PBS can do whatever they want - it's THEIR SITE! They didn't change the pricing to take money out of your pockets. They did it to try to return the ship in the direction of swapping books. It never was intended to be a site that "earned" you money. 

My tone of this question is curious, not ornery or mad or anything. I don't sell credits and hardly buy them. (Though please feel free to FLOOD my WL with offers and see what happens.) So I don't have anything really in the game here. Why aren't you considering that for YEARS, PBS has allowed people to undercut their own prices? How would you feel if you owned a shop and someone stood outside your door selling the same stuff for cheaper? 

Let's get back to the book swapping! (I am REALLY sorry if any of this has caused major havoc to peoples' bankrolls, but I have to seriously question why you relied on PBS as your "money earner" when that's not what this site was meant for).

Date Posted: 7/13/2016 3:50 PM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2008
Posts: 2,666
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was somebody complaining?

Date Posted: 7/13/2016 3:52 PM ET
Member Since: 2/28/2009
Posts: 851
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Thank you Heather for voicing exactly my sentiments when I saw all the threads about the 3 dollar credit minimum.

When I became a member here it was a club for swapping books, not for buying or selling credits, getting deals, bypassing FIFO and such.  We have strayed so far away from what it was meant to be to accommodate every 'special snowflake' scenario, that I honestly believe we will not be able to turn the ship around and make it about swapping again.

 

Date Posted: 7/13/2016 4:18 PM ET
Member Since: 5/7/2009
Posts: 793
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Heather, I would just like to see which members actually made any money selling credits for less than $3.00.  I'm quite sure that those of us who sold lower priced credits did so because we have big to huge bookshelves with books we want to share with others instead of trashing them so we have taken a big loss on them.

 I have kept very accurate records of how much it has cost me to be a member of PBS since 2009. It has been about $4000.  I have done so because it has been a fun hobby for me and I like others to get all my excess books, books given to me and books I've accumulated over my 64 years, including my parents,workmates and deceased husband's libraries.  I could sell these on Amazon or Half.com and I have sold some of them.  I haven't sold but retraded those I acquired on PBS as that is a rule.  Selling credits periodically has helped me recoup some mailing costs.  So I'm totally hurt by your calling it entitlement.  I'm retiring and won't be able to spend that extra mailing money so I have my shelf on a deal.  After that all the books I didn't acquire thru PBS will be removed and either sold or given away as I highly doubt removing the price competition for credits will stimulate their sales.

Date Posted: 7/13/2016 4:58 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,262
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Heather, 👍👏. I agree, the purpose of this site is book swapping, and i too shake my head over the number of people who seem upset that they can't buy a credit for $2 -- yet they don't maintain a bookshelf -- so that someone can spend $2.61 and up to send a book to them. I know others see it differently, but that's how i see it.

Date Posted: 7/13/2016 5:44 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,236
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When I first joined PBS credits were selling for $3.00 and no one complained about it (I sold credits for that amount). Then all of a sudden credits started dropping and now everyone wants the credits for practically nothing. Pat

Date Posted: 7/13/2016 7:46 PM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,567
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Way to go, Heather! yes 

Date Posted: 7/13/2016 9:58 PM ET
Member Since: 10/13/2007
Posts: 913
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I think $3.00 for a credit is a good deal.  If you buy from PBS it's $3.79 each (when buying 3 or more).  This site is a hobby for me.  I have never had to purchase credits, and I have never sold credits.  I have donated credits and gifted credits.  All the readers I know are happy to get books!  I love that when I mail a book, it is going to make someone's day.  But, I also know that everyone's financial situation is different.  A lot of people have a budget and limit the number of books they can mail in a given month, and that works, too.  If you're selling credits for $3.00 each, that's, generally, enough to cover postage on a book you send out. No complaints here...

Keep :)

Date Posted: 7/14/2016 12:19 AM ET
Member Since: 1/25/2010
Posts: 2,917
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I think I might love this thread.

Date Posted: 7/14/2016 8:43 AM ET
Member Since: 6/30/2008
Posts: 2,666
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What entitlement are you referring to? people complaining because the price of a credit was suddenly changed from 2 to 3 $. you feel it is wrong for people to complain about that? You never sold credits so this change has no affect on you.

Date Posted: 7/14/2016 8:46 AM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 8,180
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So what if someone doesn't like it..I don't sell credits so I'm not affected but if someone wants to complain, so what? Let rhem..no reason to say entitlement..I know you're not a fan of scrolling by things you don't want to read but really that's the best thing to do if you don't like something. 

While you were able to stop another member from posting a bit not every member is going to check here, say darn that's me, I'm embarrased now so I'll stop. Just let folks post what they want..

 

 

Date Posted: 7/14/2016 8:49 AM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 8,180
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Yepp Charles..exactly! I don't have a horse in the race either..I don't sell. If people want to complain that it's sudden, free market, wtc they can. I don't see what the entitlement is..

Date Posted: 7/14/2016 9:00 AM ET
Member Since: 1/13/2010
Posts: 3,818
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I doubt anyone is making money selling credits.  My sense is that some vmembers swap more than they receive - much more. And then sell credits for postage money or to offset the costs of putting books into the system without necessarily getting the same amount of books back in return. 

This is possible due to the gifting feature in PBS. It allows people to swap credits for something else - cash, gift cards, etc.  If PBS really wants to crack down, they could end the gift a credit feature, but they won't do that. I don't buy credits either - I earn them the old fashioned way because I have lots of books that need homes. 

But I fail to see any harm in transferring a credit that you earned by putting a book into the system to someone else.  So what if someone gets something in return?  The impact is the same on PBS whether you give them for free or exchange them for money and take a loss. I use PBS postage, so my books cost me over $3 almost always.

Date Posted: 7/14/2016 8:18 PM ET
Member Since: 6/19/2008
Posts: 5,622
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Having alot of credits would be great..IF  I was getting wish list offers..but I'm not.  Feel free to post to me.  So I sold credits for amazon gift card to buy wish list books . and everyone that I bought was posted here.  now I cant do that because nobody wants to buy at that price.

 

Sandra makes a very good point in her post in the BB  thread

How are Credit Sales Going at the Newly Established PBS Market Price of $3?



Last Edited on: 7/14/16 8:24 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 7/15/2016 2:02 PM ET
Member Since: 1/24/2015
Posts: 123
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I don't think it has anything to do with making a profit. People accumulate too many credits. PBS does not buy back. If they went under, everyone takes a big loss. What is the harm in another member buying credits so that they can get books on the site? The credits are still at PBS. They are being used for requests. Is that not the point, to enhance swapping?  Would you rather one account have a crazy amount of credits and no book movement at all? There has to be some leniency to promote swapping.

Many people are going to hate this statement... but if PBS was really concerned over the swap rate, maybe they should do away with games and wishlist multiples. There is a serious amount of highly sought after books just being held in limbo because people want to save money on shipping. So we can take a loophole on posting and shipping, but not on credits? Doesn't make sense to me...

I would rather someone buy 10 credits at $2 each and use them all for requests than have someone sitting on 100 credits and no books.

If PBS is going to play hardball with the rules, then it needs to apply to everything. It shouldn't just be about their credit profit. Swapping would enhance dramatically if ALL books had to be posted. 

*I don't buy/sell credits.. and I do use WL Multiples. Just throwing around ideas... winkcheeky



Last Edited on: 7/15/16 2:42 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 7/15/2016 2:07 PM ET
Member Since: 5/7/2009
Posts: 793
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Brittaney,   Brilliant analysis!

Date Posted: 7/15/2016 4:46 PM ET
Member Since: 8/17/2008
Posts: 8,381
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Swapping would enhance dramatically if ALL books had to be posted. 

I strongly disagree with this statement.  If all Games were eliminated, there would be an exodus of members from PBS, taking their WL books with them.  Since the membership fee was introduced, I've lost track of the (large) number of members who've stated their only/primary reason for continued involvement is participation in the Games.  This would result in reduced swapping.

If the Wishlist Multiples thread was discontinued, the number of books swapped through PBS would also decline because many members have stated the only way they can afford to swap books is through the postage savings of mailing multiple books in a single transaction.  If that option is removed for players with limited funds for postage, none of their books will be traded here.  This would result in reduced swapping.

Date Posted: 7/15/2016 5:05 PM ET
Member Since: 6/2/2014
Posts: 8,180
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I agree with Valerie ..she's right. I play games which is why I pay the standard membership. If the games were taken away, I'd leave the site.It wouldn't make me all of a sudden post a bunch of books into the system. 

Date Posted: 7/15/2016 5:32 PM ET
Member Since: 6/19/2008
Posts: 5,622
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I totallty agree!   Sometimes thats the only way I get WL books... ( games)  If that were taken away I would not stay here and continued to give and not get anything in return.   We pay a membership fee. and sometimes I wonder why am I here I really dont get anything out of it. ( in terms of books)    I post alot of wl books. offer deals on my shelf. why cant we decide how much to sell credits for?

Date Posted: 7/15/2016 8:50 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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Many people are going to hate this statement... but if PBS was really concerned over the swap rate, maybe they should do away with games and wishlist multiples. There is a serious amount of highly sought after books just being held in limbo because people want to save money on shipping. So we can take a loophole on posting and shipping, but not on credits? Doesn't make sense to me...

The amount of swapping that goes through the Wish List Multiples thread is an extremely small amount of books out of the total site activity.  All of the books in the Wish List Multiples thread are posted to the system (or at least should be) when they are swapped and the ones not requested, most of those posters have zero intention of posting them to PBS if they had to post them individually. You can't make someone post a book to PBS. The increase in PBS credit resale value might actually encourage people to start posting individually again if they think they can recoup their postage costs when selling the credit.

Date Posted: 7/16/2016 12:09 AM ET
Member Since: 5/7/2009
Posts: 793
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Well, I definitely think the operative word here is "might" because with so many people selling credits at noncompetitive prices there is little chance they will recoup ANY of their additional mailing costs while at competitve prices they might and I emphasize might have been able to recoup SOME of the costs.

"The amount of swapping that goes through the Wish List Multiples thread is an extremely small amount of books out of the total site activity."

So does this mean the amount of activity from sale of credits at under $3.00 was an extremely large amount out of the total site activity?

Date Posted: 7/16/2016 1:12 AM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2009
Posts: 35,627
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Swapping would enhance dramatically if ALL books had to be posted. 

I strongly disagree with this statement.  If all Games were eliminated, there would be an exodus of members from PBS, taking their WL books with them.  Since the membership fee was introduced, I've lost track of the (large) number of members who've stated their only/primary reason for continued involvement is participation in the Games.  This would result in reduced swapping.  yes

If the Wishlist Multiples thread was discontinued, the number of books swapped through PBS would also decline because many members have stated the only way they can afford to swap books is through the postage savings of mailing multiple books in a single transaction.  If that option is removed for players with limited funds for postage, none of their books will be traded here.  This would result in reduced swapping.....

I only started listing in the Wishlist Multiples thread when I couldn't sell my credits for what I was spending on postage... which I believe was when credits earned at the sister sites were allowed to be exchanged and sold here.... I have enough books on my tbr to last the rest of my life... but I enjoy discovering new authors here and making friends and playing the games.  If there were no games and no wl multiple thread I wouldn't be here.  As a matter of fact I almost left when the membership fee started and only stayed because of the games.

Date Posted: 7/16/2016 1:22 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,186
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So does this mean the amount of activity from sale of credits at under $3.00 was an extremely large amount out of the total site activity?

I have no idea. But they clearly deemed it as hurting normal swapping where they do not believe the activity in the WL Multiples has any negligible effect on normal swapping.

Date Posted: 7/16/2016 7:40 PM ET
Member Since: 8/24/2008
Posts: 357
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Every credit sold by a member was generated by that member sending out something. In other words, every member-sold credit is backed by a tangible good/service. That is what makes a currency sound and allows it to hold lasting value. The credits sold by PBS, on the other hand, are backed by nothing, created out of thin air. They are fiat, like Federal Reserve notes, backed only by the extent to which people have faith that they have value. They are increasing the currency supply and thus decreasing its value per unit.

Which one poses a greater threat to the overall value of the currency of this site? Member-sold credits, backed by actual media matter shipped out, or credits backed by nothing and sold by PBS?

As for entitlement, when you charge people for something, they're kinda funny about thinking that they have some input in how they get to use it (or they will take their business elsewhere). Management doesn't have to listen, but businesses that don't listen also don't tend to stay open. if it was free, kvetching might be less apropos, but paid members of a site who put their money on the line to obtain credits have a right to voice their opinions on the matter.



Last Edited on: 7/16/16 7:45 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 7/16/2016 9:24 PM ET
Member Since: 6/19/2008
Posts: 5,622
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yes

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