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Topic: Why no feedback for swaps?

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C W. (Taz)
Subject: Why no feedback for swaps?
Date Posted: 7/25/2007 2:24 PM ET
Member Since: 7/8/2007
Posts: 13
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It would really be nice if feedback could be posted.

I have received books with stains and another book which was listed under the wrong ISBN - a difference of 8 years in the edition, making one useable and the other totally out of date. In both cases, it is unlikely the offending posters will refund the credits. I have asked both nicely, to no avail.

As it is, we have little way of letting other members know that a request to Ms. X or Mr. Y might be a waste of a credit.  With no repercussions, these folks can basically send whatever they want to and still get credit for it. It shouldn't be that way.

Granted, the majority of folks here are great. But those other few...

Is there ANY way of tipping other people off? Or, would anyone have an inside scope if feedback could be implemented?

Date Posted: 7/25/2007 2:43 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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PBS operates on a first-in-first-out (FIFO) system. If you place an order, you place it with the person at the head of the line. A feedback system will do nothing to help those who order, as the system picks who you order from.

If you report "Received with problem" on these problem transactions and request your credit back when you report it, then you'll (1) probably have a better chance of getting your credit back and (2) will let R&R know about the problem. Repeat offenders can be removed from the site, but only if every book that does not meet PBS guidelines is reported as a problem transaction.

As PBS members, our only recourse is to properly report each received transaction so that the system in place can remove problem members.

The other option is to order directly from the bookshelves of members who are known to you. But if you're looking for a particular book, unless you're willing to check random bookshelves for hours, you'll need to order through FIFO.

Date Posted: 7/25/2007 2:47 PM ET
Member Since: 11/26/2006
Posts: 221
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This is available for Boxers but is not possible for regular trading, as it is F-I-F-O and not a "face to face" trade as it is with Box Of Books trades.

As with Ebay there would be "retaliation" negatives as in "you left me a neg. so I'm leaving you one"!  I have 2 negs on ebay for that very reason. Makes people hesitant about leaving negs.

C W. (Taz)
Date Posted: 7/25/2007 2:59 PM ET
Member Since: 7/8/2007
Posts: 13
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My understanding is that if there is a problem, it is between the 2 parties to work it out - that PBS doesn't step in to refund the credit.

I understand the FIFO system. But, that is something that could be viewed on the 3rd page - the one to request other books from that same person. I might then decide to wait and see how the first book arrived, versus selecting additional ones... such as the fellow I requested 3 from. Two had stains on the bottom edges, another was listed under a different ISBN, being a different edition. I really doubt he put in the wrong ISBN by accident - it was in large print on the rear.

 

C W. (Taz)
Date Posted: 7/25/2007 3:06 PM ET
Member Since: 7/8/2007
Posts: 13
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I don't think people would worry about retaliation feedback - bookmooch has feedback, altho it works weird sometimes. The system will post feedback on one person, when I left it for someone else. Then, I have to actually leave feedback for that transaction, to get the wrong erased. This is happening for the most part on people who are closing their accounts or BM is closing them - I don't know which.

With all books on PBS basically being equal - a credit - someone would be silly to order a book for the simple purpose of leaving bad feedback. To each his own, but I would like the opportunity to know I might need a bit of caution with particular individuals.

Date Posted: 7/25/2007 3:22 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Candis, I'm not sure why you think that a feedback system would help.

When you place an order, you cannot ask the person who accepted your order to cancel because you read the feedback on his page and didn't like it. If that person cancels, he'll lose his place in FIFO (which could be a long wait for some books). If you cancel your order, then your re-order will go back to the same person who is still first in line.

And there are folks who are unreasonable in their expectations regarding the conditions of the books they receive. There is no book description section on this site, just the PBS guidelines. When a person breaks those guidelines (as in the case of the books you described), the transaction must be reported as a problem transaction. In your case (assuming you spent a credit on each book) you should have marked each book as either damaged by sender or received wrong book.

There is a feedback system on PBS, but it's moderated by the system via reporting problems when the problem book is received. If each of us does our part, the problem posters will have repercussions. They'll be removed from the site.



Last Edited on: 7/25/07 3:24 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/25/2007 4:15 PM ET
Member Since: 3/20/2006
Posts: 229
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PBS operates on a first-in-first-out (FIFO) system. If you place an order, you place it with the person at the head of the line. A feedback system will do nothing to help those who order, as the system picks who you order from.

But if you order directly from someone's bookshelf, or you order more books from a member (when a wish list book is offered to you, for example), then that jumps over FIFO, right?

Date Posted: 7/25/2007 4:18 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Pattie, it does. That's the exception to the FIFO system. The problem is with finding a particular book. Unless you've got a lot of time or have many buddies with the same tastes in reading, finding a particular title is not likely, leaving you with FIFO to place your order.



Last Edited on: 7/25/07 4:18 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Angie -
Date Posted: 7/25/2007 4:25 PM ET
Member Since: 2/24/2007
Posts: 3,299
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Well...you could search for book titles under box of books and order it from a boxer's bookshelf (even if you aren't a boxer, for a credit, or become a boxer and make it a trade)--then you can see the feedback and have somewhat of an idea who you are getting it from.

Date Posted: 7/25/2007 4:50 PM ET
Member Since: 1/8/2007
Posts: 8,139
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Angie, I didn't realize that you could search BOB member shelves if you're not a BOB member! Thanks for that info! :)

But of course, there is no guarantee that the transaction will be flawless, even using BOB.



Last Edited on: 7/25/07 4:53 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/25/2007 5:17 PM ET
Member Since: 9/2/2006
Posts: 4,110
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I've given this a little thought since it is a topic that comes up often.  First off the idea that you would get a barrage of negative feedback by fellow PBS members is not totally accurate.  Sure you might come across a bad apple on occasion, but really most folks are honest and I think would leave honest feedback.  I've been with EBay since nearly the beginning and I have had one, which was done by accident as they give me good feedback in the text portion, they just clicked the wrong radio button.  Not to say that some folks aren't nasty and look to "get back" for what ever trespasses real or imagined but I think you'd end up with a very low occurrence of that. 

That being said, I think the feedback system works best on EBay because that site is truly self-policed.  EBay only steps in if someone is breaking the law, i.e.: forged autographs, selling forbidden items, etc...the rest is buyer/seller beware.   Here R&R do a pretty good job at keeping members inline letting actions speak louder than words or accusations.  You aren't privy to them, but I just wonder how many folks write to complain about things that truthfully aren't valid complaints.  Yes, they do expect us as adults to resolve our disputes up to a point before they step in, but I would guess in most cases that works pretty darn well.   Some conflicts are never going to be resolved on a personal level, the best thing to do is if it gets out of hand to email for help, especially if you feel someone is playing unfairly.

Most importantly I seriously doubt you could keep the FIFO system intact if people were allowed to choose who they order from or decline a person for any reason.  Sometimes wet, stained, torn whatever the problem books are either by mistake, ignorance or forces beyond our control like the weather.  I would truly hate to be judged on past mistakes or someone else's interpretation of "damaged".  Those who flaunt the rules will get theirs eventually, Karma isn't forgiving.

It's human nature to expect punishment or some kind of retribution against those who we feel have wronged us, however sometimes we just have to have faith in a system that seems to be working.  Not to say that there won't be occasions where you are on the losing end of a transaction or just out and out scammed, but I think if given the choice on relying on feedback or actual human monitoring I would take the latter any day.

 

Date Posted: 7/25/2007 5:41 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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And, most importantly, what matters is that R&R have said distinctly that they will not have a feedback system and they won't discuss it (not that I'm in favor of one) they keep the tally on bad swaps, and if people use the 'recieved with a problem' as it is meant to be, the people that are bad swappers will get weeded out by R&R's system.

Date Posted: 7/26/2007 7:50 AM ET
Member Since: 1/2/2006
Posts: 575
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"Angie, I didn't realize that you could search BOB member shelves if you're not a BOB member! Thanks for that info! :)

But of course, there is no guarantee that the transaction will be flawless, even using BOB."

This is VERY true. I've only received two books that should never been posted. one was a newbie and she did miss the water damage no biggie it happens. The other was just plain horrible. I got a book that was torn with a broken binding and had pages falling out. Granted it was an old book, but 3 conditions that are not allowed and can't be missed!! I reported it and PMed asking very nicely for my credit back. I never even received a pm back. I later went to this members profile and found that he was a boxer, he had many ratings, all of them good.