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Topic: Work Around for Getting WL Books Sooner - FAIR???????

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Subject: Work Around for Getting WL Books Sooner - FAIR???????
Date Posted: 7/2/2014 9:37 AM ET
Member Since: 6/17/2006
Posts: 6
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Well folks, it seems like the 2 ladies in charge of the forum here have come up with a work around to get some wish list books sooner.

They are calling it WL Multiples........

Disguised under the "way for members to save on shipping", members are able to list multiples of WL books in the forum, thus members that know to use the forum to look for something like this (I never got a hints and tip newsletter - did you?).  Seems these ladies have convinced the powers that be that if people can list their wl books that people must order more than one so they can save on shipping.

I guess it's a good concept, but it does away with the fairness of FIFO.  Seems to me a better way would be to do what people are doing now.  If you have a book post it, and then go to the other persons bookshelf and see if they are waiting for any of the other books you have. If you book is a hot book it is probably on their WL anyway.

But here comes a wrinkle.  You cannot post a multiple WL yourself, so say you want an entire series of books that are on the wl, you cannot ask for them.  Seems to me that if posting books together to ship would save postage is worthwhile, why can't someone ask for an entire series to save on postage?  OK, I did take down my post when they told me because I did not realize that it was a no-no.  However they did leave up another person's WL for WL books.

They responded to an email and said that "everyone" can look at the forum and have first crack at the books, but if you don't really know that it is in the forum and that it is an option, it is not fair for everyone - certainly not those of us that thought everything was fifo.........

Comments anyone? They will probably make me take this post down too.

Date Posted: 7/2/2014 1:06 PM ET
Member Since: 9/25/2007
Posts: 357
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I have been a member since 2007.  I have mailed out over 800 books.  At this time, I  have over 200 credits.  I currently have only 5 books on my shelf.  Over the years I have accumulated many books through PBS, I currently have probably 200 books TBR.  I really don't need more credits, and really have enough books to read to last me quite awhile. 

 I also volunteer at my local library which has a year-round library sale section.  I use the PBS wishing app on my phone and have bought (for less than $1) many many WL books from the sale.  I would say that probably 75% of those books are NOT books that I have read, or that I wanted to read.  I got them because OTHER members had them on their wishlist.  When I first started at PBS, it was less than $2 to mail a book out.  With the current postage increases, It is way too expensive for me to continue mailing out "one book at a time".  Does that stop me from getting WL books that I don't necessarily have an interest in for other members?  NO.  It just makes it necessary for me to adjust how I send them out.  I have 50 WL books in my possession right now, but I am not going to spend $150 to send them out "one at a time".  So, therefore, I use the WL multiple thread in the book bazaar.  If not for that, I would stop getting WL books that I don't desire, and probably just start donating the WL books that I do read to the library.

Take away the option to mail multiple books to save money, take away more WL books that would go into the system.  It's an economic fact from my perspective.  


Last Edited on: 7/2/14 1:08 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/2/2014 1:27 PM ET
Member Since: 5/16/2008
Posts: 2,201
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I love the WL multiples thread. I don't seem to get much action on it, probably because my list is super long, but I just don't need credits that badly to post books. I also wish there were more people posting books on my own WL because I would order tons from the thread, it just doesn't seem to happen. But it's totally fair, and a great service.

ETA: I check it like 4500 times a day. :-)

Last Edited on: 7/2/14 1:27 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/2/2014 1:53 PM ET
Member Since: 2/2/2009
Posts: 3,789
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"Fair????"  Yes, it's fair.  It is available to every PBS member, not an exclusive privilege.  Now, perhaps it would be good to report the existence of the multiple wishlist thread in one of the PBS newsletters -- it would, no doubt, increase the number of posters listing their wishlisted books and the numbers of those who utilize the list to receive wishlisted books as well.

Due to postage costs getting so out of hand, I keep just a couple of (lightweight!) books on my bookshelf.  When I need credits, I'll place my wishlist books (I have a huge stack of them, but just can't afford to offer them up one at a time) in the multiple WL thread (or will put up other books/magazines, etc., in other Bazaar threads, to send out multiple books at one time to get multiple credits).

So, now that you know about the existence of the multiple wishlist thread, you can enjoy the benefits of it as well instead of slamming the concept or the "two ladies in charge of the forum".  

Date Posted: 7/2/2014 2:12 PM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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You obviously don't come to the forums often despite being a member since 2006.  Because the WL multiples thing has been going on for years.  PBS isn't going to stop it because they know most of those books wouldn't end up posted into the system at all at this point. Not with it being $2.69 to mail one book and credits only selling for about $2 in the bazaar.  Not worth posting any at that price unless you really need the credits. Especially if you have kids to feed and bills to pay.

Last Edited on: 7/2/14 2:15 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 7/2/2014 2:29 PM ET
Member Since: 1/30/2009
Posts: 5,696
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IIRC the WL multiple thread was started a few years ago when the economy took a nosedive so many people were saying that they really couldn't afford to send books out one at a time. I'm sorry you did not find the thread until now, but that really cannot be blamed on the site. I used it a couple of years ago when I was moving and unloading a very large number off books. Sending them out individually wouldn't have worked for me, but sending them in bundles did. Without the multiples thread, these books wouldn't have been in the system at all.

No one is going to make you take down your post (i.e. everyone has a right to their opinion), but the Multiple WL thread isn't something that was instituted to keep you from receiving WL books. Quite the opposite. It's a service available to ALL members, including you.

Date Posted: 7/2/2014 4:07 PM ET
Member Since: 8/19/2007
Posts: 4,392
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By the same token, if someone orders a book from me, and then goes through my shelf and sees another book and orders it, if I'm not #1 on the FIFO list, should they not be able to order that second book?  I'm not saying it's fair, but that's just the way it is and for the most part no one is really hurt by it.  Pat

Date Posted: 7/2/2014 4:14 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,485
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Fair?  Fair to the sender or fair to folks on FIFO?  I'm all for having books sent rather than not sent at all.  

PBS is very clear, no asking for WL books in any forum.  No where.  We can offer, and respond.  Not ask.  

Date Posted: 7/2/2014 6:08 PM ET
Member Since: 12/26/2008
Posts: 1,958
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I have used the WL multiple thread both to post books and order them.

I think it is fair.  There are sometimes people who ask for the books I want before I do and I don't get them.  In this way, it is still first in, first out. 

In the case of sending books--if it weren't for this thread, I may not be able to send as many books as I do.

Ronda (RONDA) - ,
Date Posted: 7/2/2014 7:16 PM ET
Member Since: 3/3/2009
Posts: 415
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And the WL multiples thread(s) did exist before the one in the Bazaar was setup.  They were in the genre forums that wanted them.  I actually used those ones, but wont use the Bazaar one cause it has so much stuff in it that I am not interested in.  I think the Bazaar one has probably kind of killed the genre forums... but maybe it is more the general decline of the site, rather than that thread.

So those 2 ladies did not start this out of the blue to help themselves, they just combined it into one thing in Bazaar.

Date Posted: 7/2/2014 8:05 PM ET
Member Since: 8/18/2005
Posts: 7,977
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Too many discussions about this. You (the OP) should have just picked one forum and stuck with it. 

I've checked, and the earliest I've seen a WL multiple post is January of 2010. Seems like it's been around enough to be working for someone. So I'm all for leaving it as is.

And yes, I do think it's fair. Lots of people want to send out books in batches, and the WL'd books may never be posted if not in bulk. And if the sender wants to post it to friends, play a game or the put it on the regular WL, then they can chose to do so. It's not the only way to get a WL'd book.

So if you want to put the same amount of work into checking it out regularly, then maybe you'll get a chunk of WL'd books one day. If you don't want to put the work into it, you won't. I do think that's fair.

And, seriously, if you have to have one really bad, check Amazon or ABEbooks. Most books are out there for purchase. It may be pricey, but that happens. For everyone.

Date Posted: 7/2/2014 9:26 PM ET
Member Since: 10/23/2005
Posts: 7,719
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I posted this in the thread OP started in the BB and I am posting it here also.

It is a shame that folks who do not like the system that PBS has put in place think it is fine to come into the forums to bash the volunteers who give freely of their time, efforts, brains and brawn to make the site what it is. Without the volunteers here on PBS, this site would not be nearly as wonderful as it is.

If you dont like the rules, dont play. Simple as that, PBS's site, PBS's rules.

Date Posted: 7/2/2014 9:32 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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There are actually several ways around FIFO and TPTB are entirely aware of this one (as are the forum mods).  It's a fact, participate or don't participate whichever you wish. 

You can set your e-mail preferences to contact you if posts are made in your watched topics threads...such as Wishlisted Multiples or Unpostables.

Date Posted: 7/3/2014 2:00 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2009
Posts: 4,581
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Wow BILLIE A I feel as though you are being hostile towards 2 people and a program that you appear to know nothing about.  Did you take the time to look at their profiles before you went on your rant in at least two different threads?  Amanda S. (ABCatHome) who is a wonderful extremely helpful person is also a very active member here on pbs.  She currently runs said thread and the ARC Thread in the bbz, is a member of the Book Data Correction Group (they make sure the data on books is accurate), a Tour Guide Assistant Coordinator (these people reach out to new member and help them out), is the Book Bazaar Coordinator, a PaperBackSwap Blog Contributor, is also active in the games forum,  Has over a hundred reviews, and probably helps many people out in the forums when she gets the time.  She is a Volunteer, and a mother who takes her special time to make sure this sight stays running smooth!  Melanie D. (melanied) is also an extremely helpful person who is another very active member of paperback swap.  She currently helps in said thread, is a member of the Book Cover Image Group (these wonderful people go around making sure there are pictures up for the books), a member of the Book Data Correction Group,  a Tour Guide Leader, a  Book Bazaar Coordinator, and she Donated to Books for Schools..  You can frequently find her in Club Members' Thoughts  interacting with other members, in Questions about PaperBackSwap  answering questions members might ask, and many other forums answering questions and interacting with members.  I believe she occasionally plays in the games or she used to.  She is a Volunteer, has a full time life (work, husband, furkids) and takes her valuable time to do many wonderful things on this site.  With out these two people this site would not be the place it is.  And they are just two to the many valuable Volunteers that help keep this site going and things working.

The majority of us that use the wishlist multiples thread in the Book Bazaar are very active here on pbs.  Meaning we often post comments in different forums, post books, mail books to our friends here on pbs as gifts, play in games in the games thread (this is also a way around fifo if the wl thread pissed you off man you should check out the games section),  some are gold key members (this might piss your off too we get around fifo this way too), write reviews and so on.  We are usually on here once a day if not several times a day interacting in some way.

I would not send out half the books I send in a month if I didn't use the Wishlist multiples thread.  I don't always use the multiples thread as there is the Gold Key that helps me now.  You should check out the gold key especially since there is a thread where you can add friends so that more people will be checking your wl.  That does not mean I don't post to fifo because I do all the time, and I frequently post books to my shelf that get requested.  However I like most of the members who try to send out books in multiples have a limited budget for postage and just can't afford to mail out the 15 - 25 books I mail a month here to only one person at a time.  Its not feasible for me to mail my books out one at a time, and if I had to I'd probably quit posting my books and take them to a used book store. 

How active are you?  Have you made a contribution to this site in any way?  How many books do you mail out via this site?  How often do you post books that are brand new (only read by you, that you purchased)?  How much money do you average on postage for shipping?  

So I guess I believe its fair, especially since everyone is allowed to use it.  You could come to interact in the forums more, you can come to the games and have fun with us there, and you can become a gold key member.  All of those things will help you get your wl books faster, it will also help you get to know more of the members and have more fun using this site!



Date Posted: 7/3/2014 2:50 PM ET
Member Since: 1/3/2007
Posts: 108
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Cross posting this from the BB thread...

Deals and WL multiples allow the economy of the PBS system to work more efficiently. I think of it in terms of total cost for a credit. Here are some examples (and I'm rounding a lot of the costs to make the math easy.)

1. You buy a high-demand used book for say $5, read it, and then post it to FIFO. Mail it for $3, get one credit. You just paid $8 for that credit.

2. You buy that same book for $5, read it, and post it to WL multiples. You ship 3 books at one time for $1 each, you just paid $6 for that credit.

3. You buy the 5 cent used book in the example above, read it, and post it to FIFO. Mail it for $3, get one credit. you just paid $3.05 for that credit.

4. You buy the 5 cent used book, read it, and sell it in a 2/1 deal. Mail two books for $4, get one credit. You just paid $2.05 for half a credit.

5. You just buy a credit for $2.

Now with that explanation, you might think - why would anyone post a book for credit? why not just buy credits to get what you want? Because this isn't a 'get what you want' club, or a "free books for me!' club. It's a book sharing club. I genuinely enjoy sharing my books with other people. It's what keeps me away from ebooks. It's what keeps me trading my books here. There's nothing better than finding another member whose book tastes really sync with yours and sharing a book or two. Sometimes you find those members through FIFO, sometimes it's a swap or WL multiples.

Even so, I have noticed more and more "free books for me!" attitudes in the club. I really hope we can reverse that trend and focus on what we all love - sharing books.

Date Posted: 7/3/2014 3:39 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,485
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I'm sorry.  But Billie's tone really bothers me.  She has posted this in three forums.  She is disrespectful to volunteers.  She has posted a whole 6 times, more than half about this issue.  

Yes.  PBS has discussion forums.  Yes, we have deals and swap games.  It's taken her 8 years to find this out?  

I admit, I was not very active during my first year here.  The CMT forum during an election scared the pants off me, keeping me away from there for another year.  

And her objection that one member was not shut down for asking for a book?  We are allowed to ask for deals on books that are not WL.  But members are pretty quick to stop folks who ask for WL books.  I remember back when a whole forum had all of the deal threads closed down by PBS as folks were asking for WL mysteries.  Members in a forum usually step in quickly to stop this practice.  

Date Posted: 7/3/2014 6:56 PM ET
Member Since: 2/11/2011
Posts: 3,048
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Personally, I think our MODS and VOLUNTEERS are doing a GREAT JOB! 

I am like everyone else in that I need to save money on shipping.  Granted, I don't post a lot in the Wishlisted Forum, but I do like to order from there from time to time.  Honestly, I rarely if ever post books to FIFO anymore nor I rarely trade anything but wishlisted books anymore.  That being said I am very active in games and mail most of my books to Goldkey friends many of whom I have found through the FIFO line.  I have made wonderful friendships here and love swapping my books.  I would not be able to do that one book at a time.  My exception for mailing only one book is in the games section.  I do respond to a lot of people and offer deals as well if I see something in the forum I have that they are looking for.

I don't appreciate Amanda or Melanie being bashed when they put a lot of time into making this site work. 

Last Edited on: 7/3/14 6:58 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 7/3/2014 7:37 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,276
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I just want to second what Emily and Jamie said. The volunteers at PBS do so much for ALL of us and the OP's disrespect has really annoyed me. I really resent someone who has been a member since 2006, yet seems unaware of the features of PBS, who feels she can swan in, pointing fingers, calling "unfair, unfair". Take your flounce somewhere else...

Date Posted: 7/4/2014 1:49 PM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2010
Posts: 754
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Now with that explanation, you might think - why would anyone post a book for credit? why not just buy credits to get what you want? Because this isn't a 'get what you want' club, or a "free books for me!' club. It's a book sharing club. I genuinely enjoy sharing my books with other people. It's what keeps me away from ebooks. It's what keeps me trading my books here. There's nothing better than finding another member whose book tastes really sync with yours and sharing a book or two. Sometimes you find those members through FIFO, sometimes it's a swap or WL multiples.

Even so, I have noticed more and more "free books for me!" attitudes in the club. I really hope we can reverse that trend and focus on what we all love - sharing books.

Actually, there's nothing wrong with "using" PBS to get the books you want.  As long as the feature is there to buy credits from other members then it's a perfectly acceptable way to obtain books from PBS.  And it's not a "free books for me!!' mentality either to obtain books this way- the book still cost the price of a credit.  That's not free.  You use PBS the way that works for you and I'll use PBS the way it works for me.    I haven't posted any books for a few years now.   There's nothing wrong with that.  I also could be someone who only posts but never requests--- same thing.  
At any rate, just because someone does use PBS in the way that YOU do, doesn't mean it's wrong.   I am requesting books.  That is still using PBS and doing transactions and that all keeps PBS running. 

Last Edited on: 7/4/14 1:50 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/4/2014 1:52 PM ET
Member Since: 11/28/2010
Posts: 754
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Because this isn't a 'get what you want' club,


Yes it is, you can have requestor conditions to get the books you want.  That's the entire reason for RC's.  


Date Posted: 7/4/2014 8:32 PM ET
Member Since: 1/23/2010
Posts: 2,409
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Emily and Jamie and Sally said it best. Our volunteers are amazing. We don't like it when people disrespect them. OOps almost forgot Cheryl and Bizzy

Last Edited on: 7/4/14 8:34 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 7/5/2014 4:17 PM ET
Member Since: 5/1/2010
Posts: 372
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If I'm correct, once upon a time, half the people that use the Book Bazaar and all the other forums probably didn't know about a certain thread as well. They took it upon themselves to explore the site and see what it has to offer and I'm pretty sure the majority of people that found something out for the first time such as a certain thread, they didn't gripe about it -- They looked into it and used it to their advantage.


ETA: there will always be someone who knows about something before you.

Last Edited on: 7/6/14 6:34 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 7/7/2014 10:43 AM ET
Member Since: 6/15/2009
Posts: 151
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At first glance it might seem unfair in that the FIFO system is being bypassed. People can request WL books through the thread without said books going into the line and getting to the people waiting, and the person requesting could be at the back of the line and suddenly jump ahead.


As people have already said, it cost money to ship books. Many of the books offered in the WL multiples thread would never be posted at all if they couldn't send multiple books at once and save on shipping. In that case, the line for WL books would be longer and there would be more complaints about the wait for a WL book than there already are. The multiples thread actually helps to move the FIFO line along in that people order from it and then remove their WL requests, moving people in the back forward.

It's a system that works in conjunction with the current system and keeps it moving.