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Topic: Wow, this person should perhaps be banned from the site...

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Subject: Wow, this person should perhaps be banned from the site...
Date Posted: 6/15/2009 2:24 PM ET
Member Since: 6/7/2009
Posts: 12
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Last Edited on: 6/15/09 2:53 PM ET - Total times edited: 3
Date Posted: 6/15/2009 2:27 PM ET
Member Since: 6/25/2007
Posts: 5,637
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It's generally frowned upon by TPTB to publicly out members like this. I'd edit my post if I were you.
Subject: more stuff...
Date Posted: 6/15/2009 2:27 PM ET
Member Since: 6/7/2009
Posts: 12
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Last Edited on: 6/15/09 2:53 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 6/15/2009 2:29 PM ET
Member Since: 6/25/2007
Posts: 5,637
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I still think you should edit your post to remove the name.

Not that it matters, but I don't think he is admitting to lying about condition. I think what he is admitting to lying about is calling you a BIT anal. He's being sarcastic.

If you have a problem with a member and think someone is being abusive, contact TPTB. This is not the correct way to handle issues. Venting is fine, but publicly outing members like this isn't really cool, even though the member was wrong to send an unpostable book.

Last Edited on: 6/15/09 2:33 PM ET - Total times edited: 2

Date Posted: 6/15/2009 2:40 PM ET
Member Since: 5/27/2006
Posts: 11,985
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Not that it matters, but I don't think he is admitting to lying about condition. I think what he is admitting to lying about is calling you a BIT anal. He's being sarcastic.

I have to agree with Janelle here. It also appears (to me)  that you left some of the conversation out. I can't see how the flow of conversation would go from what you wrote to what he did. I think there were some other exchanges here that you didn't include.

Also - as others have said, it's not kosher to put the other members name out here like this. You need to go back and edit your posts and delete the members name.

Sianeka - ,
Date Posted: 6/15/2009 2:41 PM ET
Member Since: 2/8/2007
Posts: 6,630
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Post should be edited to remove offending member's name.  The proper way to address this is to mark the book as Received With a Problem, and then as Unresolved since not resolved to OP's satisfaction.  The PBS admins will have record of this member's action on file, and the PMs associated with the transaction.  If they continue to send out unpostable books, they will be sanctioned and/or their membership revoked. 

But the PBS administrators should handle this.  The offending member should not be "outed" in a public forum regardless of how OP may feel this is in the best interests of the general membership.  The administrators of the site do not agree -- that's part of why there is no feedback system in place here.  Let them deal with this person, and please remove the names/nicknames of other members from this thread.

Date Posted: 6/15/2009 2:42 PM ET
Member Since: 6/7/2009
Posts: 12
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Last Edited on: 6/15/09 2:54 PM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 6/15/2009 2:46 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,485
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Doc- I get it that you are new.  But this is making you look almost as bad as the problem.  This should be a RWAP and contact TPTB.  Not editing and outing another member.

Date Posted: 6/15/2009 2:48 PM ET
Member Since: 6/7/2009
Posts: 12
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I edited out all the previous posts. The only reason I put them there in the first place was that I felt like the person abused the system and responded in a hostile way. I did not mean to offend anyone.  

And by the way, I'd edited nothing from my email. They were there in their fullness and completeness.


Last Edited on: 6/15/09 2:57 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Anissa (WVgrrl) - ,
Date Posted: 6/15/2009 3:02 PM ET
Member Since: 1/16/2009
Posts: 432
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The only reason I put these emails up here was because I thought other people might like to avoid ordering books from people who are abusive and openly lie about the quality of the books they send. 

The problem with this approach is that people order books from the system and not (typically) from another member. (There are exceptions such as BoB and so forth, of course.) If a person repeatedly sends out bad books then his or her account will be suspended. Complaints about a specific member are not appropriate in the forums because they are basically a he said/she said issue. It is okay to gripe about a bad swap (lots of people do, to blow off some steam), but please don't start bashing other members who aren't here to defend themselves.

As someone above mentioned, you've only been a member for a week. I feel badly that you already had a problem swap and I hope that the rest of your experiences with PBS are much smoother.

Date Posted: 6/15/2009 5:37 PM ET
Member Since: 6/7/2009
Posts: 12
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I erased the previous posts I'd written so I just want people to know that, although I claimed the person had not used the rules, I did not personally attack them nor was I hostile to them in an excessive or belligerent way.

Actually, I posted the email I'd initially sent that person which stated that their book was not acceptable according to the rules (written in, bad binding). After which, I received an email where the person said they'd lied about the quality of the book and then made an abusive statement towards me. 

Then without any further provocation, I received a second abusive email telling me that I should just be happy with what I got, then with more names. 

I posted the emails because, 1) I didn't know what to do under such circumstances, and 2) I thought the emails would be evidence enough that perhaps people could decide for themselves to avoid dealing with such a person. However, people felt my move was wholly inappropriate, and even didn't trust that I'd posted real or whole emails, so I just pulled them. 

Actually, I was Ok with receiving this damaged book. I really wanted it and figured the price was right. I only emailed the person to warn them that they should be more careful in case they sent a book to someone who had higher expectations than me. What I received was abuse and an open statement that they'd lied about the quality. 

On Amazon.com we are entitled to leave little "reviews" of our sellers. That's what I thought I'd do, just as a tip off others.     

Kate -
Date Posted: 6/15/2009 7:04 PM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2008
Posts: 534
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DocBenway, although you cannot post the information here, you can certainly contact PBS to report this person! PBS can access your PMs and see that this person was abusive. For future reference, that's the way to get help with members like this :) PBS can return your credit and even remove them from the site depending on how bad it is.

Date Posted: 6/15/2009 7:12 PM ET
Member Since: 4/25/2007
Posts: 11,730
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If you feel that the other member has been nasty in their communication with you, then definitely send in a note via the "contact us" link at the bottom of the page.  The PBS team can see all PMs you and the other member have exchanged.  They will at least have the complaint on record.

PBS doesn't have a feedback system for fellow swappers like Amazon does for sellers.  As someone pointed out, we order mostly on a FIFO system so you really don't know who you're ordering from until it's done.

Date Posted: 6/15/2009 7:32 PM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,293
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I'm sorry that one of your first transactions here was such a pain.

Most of the members here are excellent members and you should look forward to a bright future of mostly good transactions. Sometimes, there are issues with the books sent/received, but even then, I think you will find that most people are nice about working it out. At least, that's been my experience so far.

To balance out your bad transaction story, I offer my own "today" story ...  I had to mark a book RWAP (by Post Office) and even though I didn't ask for my credit back, the other member refunded my credit about 10 minutes after I marked the book received, and sent me a nice note.

There are far, far more great transactions here at PBS than there are problem transactions, as I am sure you will find!

Its just that what you read about in the forums is mostly bad, cause that's what people get upset about.

Good luck!

Date Posted: 6/15/2009 7:38 PM ET
Member Since: 11/30/2007
Posts: 5,016
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I didn't see your emails as I came upon this post later in the day. I understand and agree with the other members who stated that you or anyone else should not and cannot mention other names of members who do these things, no matter how bad they are.

On the other hand, you or anyone else should not be subjected to being called abusive names by other members. To even admit to blantingly lying to another member about  the condition of a book is inexcusable for anyone. The PBS team needs to be aware of your problem with this other member. Luckily, you still have the pm's.

In respect to the majority of members who swap on this site, I have to tell you that the type of person you are dealing with is almost unheard of. I have had almost 300 bookswaps with wonderful people on here and have made many new buddies. So, don't let this person tarnish your feelings towards people who swap here, because most of us are all trying our best to uphold the rules etc. of this site.

I understand how you were just trying to warn us all of this person, but the PBS team is great and are the ones to handle inappropriate situations.

Welcome to this site and enjoy your future of swapping on this super website. Hopefully, from now on you will have no further dealing with this person.

Date Posted: 6/15/2009 8:11 PM ET
Member Since: 3/27/2009
Posts: 25,000
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Welcome to PBS. Sorry you were heaped abuse so soon.

You will, however, find that most transactions are problem free and most members are beyond nice. Sometimes they're like Santa Claus.

Date Posted: 6/16/2009 4:04 AM ET
Member Since: 1/12/2009
Posts: 262
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You will, however, find that most transactions are problem free and most members are beyond nice. Sometimes they're like Santa Claus.


I'll second that, Laura!  I personally have been treated great since joining, and can say I am delighted to be a member.  Even problem swaps were treated with respect and courtesy of the highest order, and resolved to the benefit of all.  Try to forget this one very bad experience (and the first one, too!) and instead look forward to all of the rest of your time with us.   Welcome aboard!    :)   D.

Date Posted: 6/16/2009 9:15 AM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1,442
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Doc, I have 'gifted' you a credit, to make up for the bad experience you had on your early PBS outing. 

I agree with everyone here who says that this is a relatively isolated occurrence and that most of the people you will find here are MUCH easier to deal with.


Date Posted: 6/16/2009 9:42 AM ET
Member Since: 8/23/2007
Posts: 26,510
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If you read the boards it seems like there's a lot of bad transactions. But that's because people don't post about the good ones that often.  They come here to vent about the bad ones or ask for advice.  Also the forum users are small percentage of PBS members.

Date Posted: 6/17/2009 2:12 PM ET
Member Since: 8/28/2007
Posts: 595
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I've had a greater percentage of bad transactions recently, but it's probably just bad luck.  I agree most of the transactions on PBS are completely trouble-free.

Date Posted: 6/17/2009 2:24 PM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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Welcome to PBS Doc, sorry your early experience has not gone well.   This unfortunate experience really isn't representative of the general PBS membership.  The large majority here are actually a very nice :-)

Date Posted: 6/17/2009 2:28 PM ET
Member Since: 6/4/2007
Posts: 243
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Actually, I was Ok with receiving this damaged book. I really wanted it and figured the price was right. I only emailed the person to warn them that they should be more careful in case they sent a book to someone who had higher expectations than me.

Please mark "unpostable" books that you receive as RWAP! It only encourages senders to send unpostable books when they can send them unchecked without receiving complaint. The rules for book conditions are not arbitrary... there are other website where unpostable books here can be posted for credit. I use PBS because I want my books in decent condition (i.e., the PBS posting guidelines for books).
Date Posted: 6/17/2009 4:20 PM ET
Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,601
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Thank you, Jillian!  I really want PBS members to get that message.  They can also post the not up to PBS standard books on the BB - maybe for a credit!


Date Posted: 6/17/2009 6:02 PM ET
Member Since: 11/14/2005
Posts: 6,421
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As with any basket of apples, you will always find atleast one, and to make a proper batch of apple cider, the bad apples and all go into the press. My point is that by having a bad experience or two,you will be glad your numbers go the other way when you start reading all the complaints from some people.

Considering the site has over 70,000 members and at any given time there probably is not more than a couple thousand logged in, and most of those are NOT on the forums, you are going to get a very biased opinion of how the trading goes reading the forums.

I personally, with my husband, have traded over 2,500 books in nearly 3 yrs, and probably haven't had more than a dozen problem trades (either their side or mine) So, that is a pretty good judge of what the stats are like here. Many people even find their bad trades come in bunches like bananas, 2 or 3 at a time, then none for the rest of the year. And believe me, you will even make a mistake or two along the way, just remember to be more polite and decent than your first exposure with a bad trader.

Also, know that people like that don't last long on PBS. They eventually either get booted, or get tired of being called a bad trader and leave. The system has flags in place that watch out for unresolved transactions and different things that cause a bad trader to eventually come to the attention of the powers that be (TPTB) and they get reprimanded.

I'm glad you removed your earlier posts, but it's not because we don't want to hear about the bad trader. Others were only looking out for YOUR welfare here on the site, since it can get you a time out (temporary suspension of your account) to do such things. Do be sure to write PBS about all this, and ask them to review the PMs between you. Do be sure to let him know that you will be marking this transaction as UNRESOLVED which actually causes this to be 2 black marks on his account, but that it ok with you if he doesn't care about his account. Your conscience is clean and his record will eventually catch up to him if he continues to trade like this. Let him know that this is the last PM he will receive, and you would appreciate it if he did not PM you again, and then DO NOT PM with him anymore. Let PBS deal with him if need be and report to them if he harrasses you anymore with nasty PMs. They will make him stop.