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Topic: Wrong Version

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Subject: Wrong Version
Date Posted: 1/30/2014 6:49 PM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2013
Posts: 741
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Okay, this has only happened a couple of times, but I really don't understand, so if someone would please explain...I will send a book, and twice the sender has marked "wrong version" and wants their credit back.  (If they are that unhappy, I have no problem refunding the credit).  The problem is: I have read the book, and read another version, and they are BOTH THE SAME.  The only difference is the cover.  Example: an Agatha Christie book marked as 'wrong version.'  (The woman never rewrote the book, she's dead.)  Word for word, there is no difference (I read it just to see if there were).  I actually checked the book, it is exactly the same, except it does not have the ISBN, while the copy I kept - same version, same cover - DOES have the ISBN listed.  So should I have sent the copy with the ISBN so there would be no dispute?  Should I inform the member of this?  Should I inform PBS?



Last Edited on: 1/30/14 8:30 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/30/2014 6:56 PM ET
Member Since: 9/25/2008
Posts: 4,028
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When you post a book you agree that the ISBN matches what you posted. So if it doesn't match then you sent the wrong version.

From help documents:

              Do the Title, Author, ISBN and Book Type match your book EXACTLY?

Covers do not need to match though.



Last Edited on: 1/30/14 6:58 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/30/2014 7:01 PM ET
Member Since: 1/15/2007
Posts: 1,410
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.

 



Last Edited on: 2/2/15 1:53 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/30/2014 7:15 PM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2013
Posts: 741
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How can it be the 'wrong version' if it is THE SAME BOOK?  There is absolutely no difference in the book whatsoever as far as content is concerned.  Exact number of pages, same cover, same publisher.  So how can it be different?  I can understand if the publisher is different; large print vs. regular, etc.  But the same pages/pub/year/cover?  I just received two copies, one with an ISBN and one without.  (This isn't about the credit - I've already refunded it).  The ISBN matched - I just sent the one that didn't have it listed on the inside cover (which I'll never do again).  I really didn't think it mattered because it was the same book, and didn't know people were that picky.  I never check a book's ISBN when I receive it; I'm happy just to have the book.

Date Posted: 1/30/2014 7:23 PM ET
Member Since: 6/16/2010
Posts: 5,700
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It used to be some book club editions had no ISBN numbers, and many people would rather not get a BCE book, especially those who collect.  In truth, as far as monetary value goes, BCEs aren't worth much at all.

Date Posted: 1/30/2014 7:32 PM ET
Member Since: 11/15/2008
Posts: 3,308
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If the person wants to reswap it, they are probably annoyed about getting a book without an ISBN.  While it has the same text, club rules do not allow you to post a book without an ISBN under a listing that has an ISBN.  You have to post it specifically as a book without an ISBN, and it is often much less likely to be ordered.  Without meaning to, you are sending the reciever a book that potentially has a lower trade value.

Date Posted: 1/30/2014 7:38 PM ET
Member Since: 2/26/2013
Posts: 741
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Understandable.  But I check my books carefully, and if they're worth any real money, I don't put them here! But I checked this person's wishlist, and they don't have any version listed - a copy of the book, but NO ISBN.  So how can it be the wrong version if they don't have one listed?  They requested mine - but don't have a specific version listed?

Date Posted: 1/30/2014 8:05 PM ET
Member Since: 6/16/2010
Posts: 5,700
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The version she wants is the one on her WL.  She had no reason to believe it wasn't the one she wanted, since you listed it as such.

Date Posted: 1/30/2014 8:52 PM ET
Member Since: 9/25/2008
Posts: 4,028
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Does the book on the requestors wishlist have a full ISBN or a 5 number ISBN? You can't have a book on a wishlist without one of those options.

 

Date Posted: 1/30/2014 9:03 PM ET
Member Since: 7/19/2008
Posts: 15,471
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When we look at another member's wish list we do not see the ISBN.  Have to click on the book details to see it.  

When the requesting member marked the book as RWAP, Wrong Version, they were offer the option to reorder the correct ISBN.  Sometimes member do mark it as Wrong version in error, unaware that the cover does not need to match the photo.  But the ISBN is one of the four points that is required to match.  

Date Posted: 1/30/2014 9:17 PM ET
Member Since: 5/4/2009
Posts: 406
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So how can it be the wrong version if they don't have one listed?

It is the wrong version regardless of what they have on their wishlist today. They ordered a specific ISBN from you and they did not get it. You may consider it picky, but it is a club rule. This book may be exactly the same, but not all versions of other books are and the rule is in place so that people can be sure of what they are ordering.

Date Posted: 1/31/2014 2:41 AM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,337
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Offering to send her the correct ISBN would be a solution, since you have it.  If you would like her to return the other book, you could offer either to give her a credit to cover her postage, or include a self-addressed stamped envelope for her to mail it back to you.

Date Posted: 1/31/2014 2:54 AM ET
Member Since: 8/20/2007
Posts: 1,020
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Sometimes it gets a little crazy when focusing solely on ISBNs. I have seen books with identical ISBNs from the same publisher that have different covers and that are printed on very different qualities of paper. Are these "the same book"? Not really.  Also, it is not uncommon for publishers to change a book's ISBN when they reprint it. These often have slightly different cover art that varies the cropping, image size, and placement of the title and other text on the cover, even though the text of the book is identical to the previous printing. Are these "the same book"? Essentially, yes, since the text is the same and there may be only small cosmetic changes from one printing to the next. (This is not always the case, but examples of this are plentiful and easy to find.)

Also, members may be looking for a specific ISBN because they are trying to match other books in a book series, or a collection of books by a particular author. That's totally fine and reasonable, but choosing a book having a specific ISBN does not guarantee that the book they receive will match others in a given set, even from the same publisher.

While ISBNs are useful and provide a consistent way for posting and requesting books, they are fraught with irregularities and are often not the end-all-be-all for defining a specific book edition, and strict adherence to ISBNs is often overrated. Lastly, ISBNs do not apply whatsover to books printed earlier than the late 1960's when the numbering system was adopted, and many of these older books have great value and merit even though they do not have ISBNs. A 1980's or 1990's reprint of a book having a copyright from the 1950's, for example, is not the same book as the original publication and an edition bearing an ISBN in these cases may be totally undesirable.

 



Last Edited on: 1/31/14 3:27 AM ET - Total times edited: 2
Date Posted: 1/31/2014 7:22 AM ET
Member Since: 8/25/2009
Posts: 703
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All well and good, Chris.  There can be anomalies with ISBN's.  But the PBS rules are the argument-settlers.  This is what we agreed to, that when we send a book, the ISBN that was ordered is what we will send.  And if we order a book and get the ISBN that we ordered, we do not have a RWAP based on the ISBN.  Most of the time, the ISBN is a useful tool.

 

Date Posted: 1/31/2014 7:49 AM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,724
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 That's interesting, Chris,  as we were members of several children's and adult book clubs between 1983-96 and all of them except a set of classics have ISBNs.

Date Posted: 1/31/2014 4:51 PM ET
Member Since: 8/16/2007
Posts: 15,200
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Understandable.  But I check my books carefully, and if they're worth any real money, I don't put them here! But I checked this person's wishlist, and they don't have any version listed - a copy of the book, but NO ISBN.  So how can it be the wrong version if they don't have one listed?  They requested mine - but don't have a specific version listed?

What???? A person can't Wishlist a book, without listing a specific ISBN. Once their wish has been granted by your copy (your specific ISBN you have said you will send when you posted it), of course it is no longer on their wish list, their wish has been granted and it is now on a different tab.

How can it be the 'wrong version' if it is THE SAME BOOK? 

Just because it is the same story does not mean it is the SAME VERSION. The ISBN is different. When the publisher changes the ISBN it is because they changed something (or it is a different publisher and something will still be different). The requester requested the ISBN for a reason. Could have spent hours researching exactly which publication they want or just picked on. It doesn't have to make sense to you, they requested a specific ISBN (version). You posted that ISBN (version) and by doing so and clicking YES on the Do the Title, Author, ISBN and Book Type match your book EXACTLY? you agreed to send that ISBN (version). Don't post ISBNs you don't plan to send. I don't see why you say you have the ISBNs that you are posting and yet you are sending other versions. If you think they are the exact same book, then send the one you offered and keep the one you didn't for yourself.

 

There are five things you HAVE to match to send a book, you click to agree to them all when you post a book - Title, Author, ISBN, Book (binding) Type, and Large Print status. If any of those things do not match with the book you are sending, you risk a Problem swap and should be returning credits for them if you get them because you didn't follow swapping rules. It doesn't matter if the story content is the same, because yes, sometimes people are looking for something besides just reading the story in the books they are getting.



Last Edited on: 1/31/14 4:52 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 1/31/2014 10:13 PM ET
Member Since: 8/20/2007
Posts: 1,020
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Just to clarify my previous post, the ISBN system is a good tool and generally works well to identify books and their authors. I was only trying to point out that nearly identical books can have different ISBNs, and that books with a given ISBN aren't necessarily identical, even though theyhave the same story and text.

I hope I did not imply that it is ok to send books if the ISBN of your book does not match the one that was requested. The rules are clear that Title, Author, ISBN and Book Type must all match the book listing. If not for this rule, we would surely have many, many more RWAPs.

Occasionally you may have situations where you cannot post a book with its ISBN because the title is slightly different or because your copy has a different binding. For example, sometimes hardcover and paperback editions have identical ISBNs (even though in most cases they are different) and members may very well want only the hardcover or the paperback version, and not the other.

The bottom line is don't post or send a book if any of the critical data does not match the listing, even if you think the listing may be in error. In such cases the book must be posted without using its ISBN, and entering the title, author and book type manually.

Date Posted: 1/31/2014 10:16 PM ET
Member Since: 8/25/2009
Posts: 703
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Thanks for clarifying, Chris :)
 

Date Posted: 2/1/2014 12:32 PM ET
Member Since: 4/28/2009
Posts: 9,724
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Ha!  I just finished a WL book that I received last week, went to post it, and in doing my due diligence, I verified the ISBN before clicking on "I can post this book"--- ISBNs weren't the same!  I posted the book under the correct ISBN and it was also WL so I've got no reason to complain, but I did send the person who sent me the book a reminder that ISBN must match!  No response from them all week so I'm guessing they slunk off with their tail between their legs.

Date Posted: 2/3/2014 10:01 AM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,272
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When I repost my books I always enter in the ISBN number as opposed to relisting it off of my bookshelf because I discovered early on in my PBS career just how many books I was receiving that did not match the ISBN requested. Usually that is not a problem for me, other than being annoyed that the listing member did not follow the rules, but there are times when, for my own reasons, I want the copy I have requested. I must admit, that I don't always check to see that the ISBN matches when I receive a book so if it slips by me I can't really complain about it, but when I do notice I definitely let the sending member know...usually don't want my credit back, but if we don't complain about it the offending members will continue to send out books that don't match.