I am very upset today after receiving books that I got from one person on PBS today. I spent a total of 29 credits for homeschooling books from her. I asked her in a pm if they were current editions and even sent numbers that they should match to her.

She said she believed they were all current and she even said that other numbers I sent to her matched when some of them definitely did not.

This person has several grade levels of A beka on her shelf from 3rd grade and up through the 11th grade maybe 12th grade now .  After shipping me some books, she actually turned around and started posting some of the "current" ones I thought was shipped to me to her shelf and some had certain editions like "second edition" or "third edition" to the title.

Please BEWARE of this person if you see her shelf. I am clicking these books received with a problem and I will be sending my pm's to this person to the site owners here.

People that do things like this to people should not be on PBS. This was not fair of this person.

Thanks Char!

After clicking that I received them and they were the wrong book because of the editions the lady contacted me. She said that I could send them back to her and get my credits back for the older editions.

Later today, I will put my account on hold and list those books for her to order back from me.  I had to leave my shelf off of hold because it puts the added books on hold for some reason today. Just know that those last eight books need to go back to her for now. I am sure I will have others to go back to her out of the next box too.

Thanks,

Bobbie Jo

Bobbie Jo~

If you are posting them and she orders them back from you, you've still lost out, haven't you?  You are having to pay postage to get your credits back, unless she is sending you some $ for shipping also.  Or if you mark it 'wrong edition' do you automatically get your credit back and sender forfeits the credit?

Just curious.

Too bad about the editions...that is a total bummer...and not very nice!

Tonja

Tonja,

 Yes, I have still lost out. I don't think that is fair. To have to pay for shipping when I did ask if they were current and even sent numbers that some of them should have on the backs of the books.

She didn't say that she is sending me anything for shipping. I think she should do that. She mailed me some books that she knew wasn't current. The lady has homeschooled for 20 years.

Tonja the person still receives your credit for the books even if they send you a wrong book or wrong edition book which is not right. I didn't get my credits back automatically when I clicked received the wrong book and described it as the wrong edition.

I will find out more from the PBS site about this later. I think I will ask about the shipping charges to them also. Since she mailed me books that were not current.  Some where c. 1983 and c. 1986 and some of the teacher keys to grammar where c. 1992. Not the editions that I needed even after I asked her about them.

She has been pming me back and forth and in the last one she said that since they are coming from PBS and if she could have gotten them there she would have dealt with the changes in the editions.

The point of it is if they aren't current they do not match what I have boughten from A beka and some of the other things I was going to buy from them Aug. 24th.  I bought some stuff earlier hoping some of these would match like she said.

If anyone gets books like this that doesn't match please report it with a problem, so others do not get messed over.

PBS does have the received with a problem button if you need to use it. Maybe my situation here will help others not to get messed over. If it was for that reason only it will be worth all of the mess I have heard today from her about the books.

I am going to take a picture of the books also.

All I have to say is "SHAME ON HER!"

Does anyone know how to upload pictures on PBS?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bobbie Jo

Thanks Tonja for you reply to my post.  I had to edit my computer was acting up a little.

The sad part is that I have another box coming from her. I am sure I will have some that aren't current there also.

Off to contact the site owners about the shipping charges.

Thanks,

Bobbie Jo

This happened to me before but it was one book not 8 at one time and I still have another box to go through when it comes. The other lady that sent me an older edition said that her friend was on here also with lots and lots of A beka books. I think I found her friend with alot of older editions saying they were current. :(

The one person that did that to me before is on my do not trade with and this one is definitely going on there too.

I am waiting to hear back from the site owners. 

If this happened to you do you think you should have  to pay for shipping yourself to ship books back without getting reinbursed if it wasn't your fault?

Moral of the story: Wait until you have all the evidence :)

She has been pming me back and forth and in the last one she said that since they are coming from PBS and if she could have gotten them there she would have dealt with the changes in the editions.

She can't honestly be serious!  With things changing as much as they have just in the past five years, I can't even imagine trying to homeschool these days with 20+ year old books.  That's just insane.  I can't believe anyone would actually suggest that.  If it was a regular reading book then sure, but a school book, that just isn't feasible.  The things my child is learning right now in the 3rd grade is stuff that I didn't learn until I was in the fifth or sixth grade and it's just going to get more and more that way.  I do applaud you though for not mentioning the person's name on the thread.  I really hate it when I see people do that.

I pmed her about I didn't think it was fair that I would have to pay for shipping that she should reinburse me for that. She just pm's me about the books, nothing has been said about reinbursing me for the shipping of the books. I may have to just keep them and never do business with her again, which I plan on not doing business with her again because of this.

She knew she was sending me the "old" books to begin with that is what the sad part is.

At least she is on the PBS record for sending wrong editions of books for doing that. When I receive the next box of books and if they are the wrong editions after I was told that they were current they too will be marked received wrong book. 

This PBS site is based on the honesty of the members to be honest about their books to members that are requesting them. This lady wasn't  "honest" about the editions of some of her books. She was trying to find a fast way to get rid of older versions. This is so sad!

Thanks Shannon.  Eventhough, I am upset about this situation I don't think it is right to post the person's name here. 

Thanks to everyone that responded and to all the great homeschooling parents that are "honest" about their books here. You make this site worth being on. Eventually, the bad swappers get weeded off by PBS eventually if we do our part about marking our books received with a problem if there is a problem with them.  If she keeps doing this to other members she will find herself off of the site. If she continues to do this to other members after all of this she should be off the site

 I am tired of going back and forth with this lady. I am not going to send them back and maybe my friends around here can use those books. It has been on and off all day pm's about the books. Some people just can't admit they are wrong when they are wrong. That  is sad too!

 Shannon, this is a quote of what she told me in a pm:

I homeschooled for twenty years and in my experience the updated editions weren't all that critical anyhow....personally, if I had been able to get books from PBS at the time instead of paying outright for them, I would have dealt with small changes.

This has been on and off all day long. She pmed me saying they were current when some of them wasn't current. She also typed me the above. She knew they weren't current. My day has been pretty much wasted going back and forth about this and I am not doing that anymore with her.

Trying to upload images I scanned on my scanner that my mother in law gave us. If  you know how to do this it would help alot. I can not get them onto this post for some reason.

Thanks,

Bobbie Jo

I've also recieved many great books from Bobbie.  I'm sorry your having to deal with this.  What a bum deal!

~Carla

Thanks Carla.

I have swapped many books with a lot of great homeschoolers and other members here. This is the worst swap I have EVER had on here.

She is still pming me. It is time to go to bed. I am going to ignore her. I don't think you can block people from pming you. Maybe it would be a great thing to suggest to the site owners. Maybe they will make a way to block certain pm's later.

Goodnight Everyone,

Bobbie JO

Bobbie~

Do you have copies of the PMs of you asking if they are current and from her stating that they are?  Is that what you sent to site owners?  I haven't used abeka.  I know that with older books many don't have isbns, but this would be akin to posting a book  under one isbn but it actually has a different one.  In that case, I think you DO get your credit back.  I would not send her the books back.  I would ask that she send you a credit for each book she misrepresented.  I don't pretend to speak for the site owners, but I would think if you have copies of the PMs to substantiate your claims, that R&R probably will side w/ you and it will look better on her record if she willingly gives the credits back.  I also would politely but firmly mention that to her.  One or two credits I may overlook, but with so many no way.  

Shannon said: With things changing as much as they have just in the past five years, I can't even imagine trying to homeschool these days with 20+ year old books...If it was a regular reading book then sure, but a school book, that just isn't feasible.

That's not really the problem here.  I've been hsing 14 years and do use some books that are that old.   However, I'm fully well aware if they are the current edition or not.  Especially if someone asks me!  The issue isn't swapping old editions, it's saying that they are current editions.

It is important that the teacher's and student's editions match.  In my 14 years experience, why would I waste my time trying to deal "with small changes" if the books were truly misrepresented to begin with?  If I knew in advance that I may have to deal with a different edition, I may still choose to accept it.  But that should be my choice for a text with no isbn that I have asked about.

Tonja

I'd be upset too.  I have some older editions of Abeka items listed and I went through great pains to make sure the correct Abeka numbers, copyright and edition are listed.  We finished 3rd last year and they had just changed the 1st and 2nd grade material after we finished, basically making my editions void.  I called about selling them through a homeschool store and they wouldn't even buy them. 

I had gotten a few of my previous teacher's key used and one had several changed items, even in the same edition.  It made my son very frustrated and was very distracting to our day.  It really wasn't her choice to decide for you if you wanted to use an older edition.

Good luck.

okeedokee...

I recant this statement, too.

Tonja,

I did save the pm's where I asked her about the editions and if they were current and her response about representing them as current when they weren't. I did send them to the site owners.

I have some pm's where I even asked about the current numbers on the back of the books and she said "correct" , "another match", "that's the one on the back of my book". 

I already received some of these books and they weren't current. She mailed some of the other books that was suppose to be current after she mailed the box I received the other day. So I am sure I will have other pm's to send to the site owners later when those books come too.

I also use some books sometimes that aren't current. I have some homeschool books that are wishlisted where they aren't the most current ones and that is fine. I am trying to match what I have here at the house.

It isn't the point that they were older editions, it was that she pretended that they were current editions when they were not. She knew I pm'ed her about using the new editions of those books because I could still buy workbooks and student tests and quizzes now from abeka for them this year so they would match.  It is very frustrating when your student and teacher books do not match.

 Michelle,

I let her know I was done arguing with her. I am going to let the site owners contact her. 

I can back up what I am saying with pm's and pictures too. I have a scanner and scanned pictures also. I am going to ask them if they need pictures too of them showing they are "old" books and not current edition. I will also scan the pictures of what the current ones are supposed to look like from the A beka current catalog.

I don't know how to scan my pictures to a post here, but I do know how to scan them to an e-mail to the site owners here.

What is sad is when children on here are excited about opening packages, even if they are school books sometimes expecting to find current homeschooling books that were supposed to be there and finding "older" editions. That is a heart breaker. :(

We get a lot of books for our children on here and a lot of them are excited about receiving books when the mail delivers them. Some children even open a lot of the books when they arrive if it is for them and if they are old enough to open the package.  Then to find the wrong books inside.  This was just  "WRONG"!

Everyone have a great day!  I know the PBS site owners will take care of this!

Bobbie Jo

PBS just got back to me. They are saying that because this member hasn't has a record of doing this in the past that she did not intentionally send me older editions of these books. That I was accusing her of doing it on purpose and that was not right of me.

 I will put the quote here.  Oh my goodness, I would have never believed I would have gotten this reponse from PBS. I will be right back. I had pm's and pictures also.

This is what they sent me back about this situation:

The instructions are very clear in the Help Center about how problem transactions are handled.  You can access the Help Center from the top of any page on the site.  Please read "There is a problem with a book I received", which contains this information.

As the Help doc says, the listing for a book at PBS needs to match the book only with regard to ISBN, title, author and binding type.  Editions and publication dates are NOT required to match.  With regard to textbooks/workbooks, the condition needs to be described and accepted in a PM exchange before the items are sent.

So: in this case, the books about which she said they were "current to the best of my knowledge" and you accepted, those are not wrong books unless the title, author or binding type didn't match (these are all non-ISBN items so ISBN is not relevant here), or the condition as described did not match.  The books for which she confirmed a number on the book matched one you provided (and you accepted based on that match), the number on the book can be considered part of the book "condition as described in a PM" and if the numbers on any of those did not match these were "wrong books" and can be treated as such as the Help doc cited above describes. If she asks for proof that the numbers did not match, you can share the scanned photos with her, and you can both review the PMs between you concerning these items.

It seems from your request to have us read your PMs and your second message to us that you are wanting us to judge this sender as deceptive, from the PMs between you about this swap.  We don't adjudicate individual problem swaps (since we cannot and do not have the time to evaluate the books in question), but we appreciated your concern about this sender. To that end, we read your PMs, and although we sympathize with your disappointment, we don't think she intentionally deceived you.  We find it strange--and rather sad--that you apparently DO believe this. 

What we see: we see that she described her items, telling you that she thought they were current versions; she told you when she used them, in what context, when she got them, the publication dates when they had publication dates.  She was precise enough that you declined some of the items based on her description.  She explained that some of them didn't have numbers. She provided you a list of the items in your "order" (the only clear list in one place in the entire exchange) and you told her to send the items.  She added and removed books from the shipment as you sent her new PMs.   I think she tried very hard to meet your needs, and if there was a discrepancy this was not intentional. 

When you wrote her telling her that the books as received would not work for you, she immediately apologized, and offered the credits back to you; she agreed to request whichever items you wanted to post back from you, merely asking you for a list of the ones to request.  (This is not the recommended solution in the Help doc, of course, but that's fine.)  She suggested that you refuse the next shipment so that it would be returned to her at no cost to you, although it will probably cost her postage again to claim it.  I think that you should do this when this second package arrives from her.

We know that you're disappointed, but you have had good swaps with her in the past; it is odd that you would "turn" so quickly and accuse her of deceiving you intentionally.  Mistakes do happen. We can't know how this one happened--you refuse to discuss it with her, although she has asked you--but we can see that she has been pleasant and patient throughout, appropriately apologetic and has agreed to everything you have asked in the way of reparations.  We don't ask that senders make NO mistakes.  We ask that they handle the ones that they DO make (everyone makes mistakes) well.  She is handling this well, although you have been very accusatory to her in your PMs.

She is working very hard to make this right.  She has not told you that she will not pay postage to get the problem items back (although you have been rather unpleasant to her, and many others would want to refuse based on that alone).  It is unclear why you felt the need to ask us about the policy on this, since again the information is clear in the Help Center. 

We do sympathize with your disappointment, but we do not agree that this member is a bad swapper or that she did anything purposely wrong. Her record does not show a pattern of problem swapping now; if one develops, we will communicate with her about it.  We would have hoped that you would help her sort out what went wrong here to prevent future mistakes on her part, but you are not willing to do that.  It is a shame that in this situation your disappointment so quickly became accusation and suspicion.  The benefit of the doubt actually benefits all parties.

The PaperBackSwap Team

I did do business with this lady one time before this. I asked her about some books and she told me two were older and the others she believed were current.

When they came I didn't clicked those received with a problem because she told me that two would be older and the others "she believed to be current" -those believed current books were current so I didn't click received with a problem. So I trusted her word from this transaction and ordered more from her. Which anyone would have at this point. Eventhough, the older ones did not match the newer ones I still didn't click received with a problem because I knew they were older.

PBS site owners says that she sent me pulication dates and editions of all of these books. That did not happen on all of those books.

She only sent me a few copyrights and those that didn't work out I did not get so I did ask her to cancel those. Anyone else would have done the same thing.

She never told me all of the publications and editions of all of these books. I would not have ordered all of the ones that I did if she had done that.  Think about that, would that have made any sense. no.

I have pmed this person back and forth about this situation yesterday. So I don't know where PBS is getting that I was not trying to talk to her about it.  Plus on top of that she e-mailed me on and off all day yesterday telling me they were current when they were not and continuing to pm me until bedtime.

I wasn't rude to this lady. I did get upset knowing that she sent me wrong books knowing they were wrong. After homeschooling for 20 years she didn't know they were the wrong editions. Who does she really think she is fooling here? I did say she was wrong for doing that and I wouldn't do anymore business with her.   Anyone would have pmed the same message back to her.

 PBS site owners must be friends with this person. I am not suppose to accuse someone of sending bad books when I know she intentionally did do that, but PBS can say that stuff about me.  I have proof and everything and they are turning it around on me and putting that she had all of the publications and editions in e-mails when she didn't do that on all of the books. She only done that on a few of them.

 If she isn't one of their friends they typed this back to me because they didn't want to take time to check this out for themselves especially being eight books plus more on the way it would look like they would have checked it out in a case like this.

 I will be leaving this site soon.  If you can't trust the PBS site owners to help fix something when definitely something is wrong and you have pictures and pm's to back it up, then I don't want to continue on a site like this.  This goes to show you what happens even if they do find someone that has sent many wrong books with the wrong editions. I thought in those situations they would step in and do something about it.  This goes to show you PBS isn't going to do anything about anything because they don't want to get involved or maybe it is a friend of theirs.

It has been great meeting all of you great homeschooling people on here. Happy Homeschooling Hopefully, this will not happen to you when you need help from the PBS site owners.  They turn it around  on you when it wasn't your fault. The other person sent the wrong books. "She knew what she was doing".  She wanted to get rid of the older books and did it.

People on PBS that I have sent books to and ones that has sent books to me, you know I am an honest person.

Bobbie, I have to say that I've been watching this thread with a little bit of unease.  Not because you were wronged, but because you so quickly became angry and bitter about this swap AND chose to bring the rest of us into it.

I understand that these books were not the editions that you thought you were getting and were disappointed, but the sender immediately offered to accept them back and give your your credits back.  Why would you jump from there to the accusations about her morals?  It seems to me that she's been very accomodating. 

I obviously haven't seen the pms between you, but if you've been half as accusatory in those as you've been here, I would be really offended if I was the sender.  She was TRYING to do the right thing and even going above and beyond the club's policies.  Maybe you could have been a little more understanding about the mistake.

Finally, accusing Richard and Robert of showing preferential treatment, is really beyond the pale. 

PBS site owners must be friends with this person.

If she isn't one of their friends they typed this back to me because they didn't want to take time to check this out for themselves especially being eight books plus more on the way it would look like they would have checked it out in a case like this.

They didn't want to take the time to check this out for themselves???  Did you read their email to you?  Clearly they've read each and every pm between you and the sender AND have a clear understanding of what went down.  That was not a quick pm, blowing you off.  It was a well thought out response to your problem.  It may not be the answer you wanted, but to accuse them of "being friends with this person" and "not wanting to take time to check it out" is just not right.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as uncaring, but I don't like to see the forums degenerate into this type thread.  PBS is by and large a very fun place to trade and has thousands of honest people.  There's no need to bring this type of issue here, especially when the sender is TRYING to do the right thing.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I have NO IDEA who the sender is so it's not like I'm defending a friend.

My 2 cents.

Your opinion to me is worth 2 cents -2 cents=0.  I expected some people with whom I have had trouble with in the past to jump in here now.

It is all fun and games Carole unless you are on the short end of the stick. Eventually, it will happen to you also. It is just a matter of time.

I wasn't quick to come to conclusions. I have lots of pm's back and forth to this lady asking about editions for more than a week about the editions of these books.

I posted this to the board because I wanted to let other homeschoolers this was going on here in case it happens to them. Carole, I wasn't talking to you I was talking to the people who really care about this kind of stuff happening here.

They didn't read read all of my pm's. They just wanted the easy way out. DO NOTHING ABOUT IT way. No one should be out for shipping books back that didn't meet their conditions in pm's. That is not fair. I am not doing it.

That is what you opinion is worth 2 cents -2 cents=0. 

Wow, now you're calling my opinion worthless?  Huh.  Nice, very nice. 

I've been a member of PBS for almost 2 years and have been on the short end of the stick.  It happens.  It's life.  I definitely didn't let it sour me on PBS or to rant against the owners in a public forum. 

She offered your credits back.  Why do you feel the need to keep this going????

And Bobbie, there are just as many people on this forum that have traded and know me.  The difference is that I don't need them to validate my position.

They didn't read read all of my pm's. They just wanted the easy way out. DO NOTHING ABOUT IT way.

So you know they didn't read all you pms for a fact?  Really?  Because as site owners they have no way of doing this, right?  Hm, they seemed to have a LOT of information in that pm to you to not have read the vast majority at the very least.

Easy way out?  Come on, do you really believe that?  They gave you a very detailed and thought out response, not a simple form letter.  They took a stance that you may not agree with, but they did not take the easy way out.  Just look at your rant on this forum....do you think they can't see it????

Note to everyone else having to read this discussion:  I'm very sorry to bring you into it, but I really feel the need to defend R&R!  They are amazing people, doing a oft-times thankless job to keep this site fun and safe.  I can't standby and let her statements against them go unchallenged. 

 You're more then welcome to disagree with me, but my opinion is as valid as anyone else's, Bobbie.

Carole, You have given me a hard time in the past, so no your opinion means nothing to me. I am honest about things and some people don't like to hear honest answers on here. They get mad at you for being honest about things. I really don't care if they do get mad about it. If I tell them something is wrong and it is wrong and they get mad.

I know I am right and the members who know I got messed over know I am right.  I also know what was pmed and what was pmed back to me. I am done with this mess and with you too Carole.

That is what you opinion is worth 2 cents -2 cents=0. 

Well - to me, her 2 + 2 = 100 (just like the opinion of every other member on this site)

I'm not a home schooler. But I am fellow moderator of Carole's and consider her a friend. Which isn't the point. The point is  - what she has to say matters - just as what EVERYONE else on this site has to say matters!

Everyone is going to have trouble with a trade at one point or another. Life certainly is not perfect - but to come in here and slam other members, as well as the owners of this site - well that's just wrong on so many levels I don't know where to begin!

Note to everyone else having to read this discussion:  I'm very sorry to bring you into it, but I really feel the need to defend R&R!  They are amazing people, doing a oft-times thankless job to keep this site fun and safe.  I can't standby and let her statements against them go unchallenged.  

I stand behind you 100% on this Carole as I'm sure many many many others will. (And really the only reason I posted here!)

Unfortunately, PBS is getting larger and with a larger site comes some people that "are not honest" about their books.

Some site owners that  don't want to get involved and they even state that in the help center, but I thought with several books being wrong they would do something but no.

Everything that goes up must come down eventually.

Note to everyone else having to read this discussion:  I'm very sorry to bring you into it, but I really feel the need to defend R&R!  They are amazing people, doing a oft-times thankless job to keep this site fun and safe.  I can't standby and let her statements against them go unchallenged

I took up for them too until I was pmed like I was the one at fault when I wasn't at fault at all. Then saying all of the publications and editions were mentioned when they all weren't Lori.

The above sentence is mine.