Kat N. (kitkatt) reviewed Gothic Charm School: An Essential Guide for Goths and Those Who Love Them on
Helpful Score: 3
As a former dark child and mother of a 12 year old girl edging into the goth world, this book is a must read not only for the teens who are goth, but for their parents as well.
It is very informational and educational for all parties while keeping it light and easy to read.
I only wish someone had given a book like this to my mother so she wouldn't have been so worried about my black clothes way back when.
It is very informational and educational for all parties while keeping it light and easy to read.
I only wish someone had given a book like this to my mother so she wouldn't have been so worried about my black clothes way back when.
T.E. W. (terez93) reviewed Gothic Charm School: An Essential Guide for Goths and Those Who Love Them on + 345 more book reviews
I've been doing some pretty heavy lifting recently (the death penalty in the US, the fall of Mosul and the IS "Caliphate"), so I wanted something that was a lighthearted and entertaining read. I came across the author on YouTube a while back, and I was curious to see how the "Goth" subculture has changed, or endured, since I was in high school, back in the last century (!). I have a Gothic streak (honestly, I hate the term "Goth," personally; it's too "trendy" and flippant for me) a mile wide, albeit one which is carefully concealed, so I'm just curious about the material.
I think this had a lot of potential, and I get that it's supposed to focus on the etiquette aspects of being Gothic, but I think there was a lot of lost opportunity. I also agree with several of the other reviewers who have likewise reported that the book is highly repetitive and talks a lot, but doesn't say much. I think the current content could have been condensed into one or two chapters on actual etiquette, but it could have gone far beyond that. This could even have been something of an "instruction manual," discussing some "how to's" of being Gothic. I also get that there are many, many subcultures within the umbrella-term "Gothic" subculture, but there are certainly some common elements.
I would also have really liked more of a history, or, at least, incorporating some of the history of the subculture into the material, which would give the added benefit of understanding why this particular group of people gravitate toward particular cultural elements. A more in-depth discussion of the types of things Gothic-identifying people enjoy and are passionate about, and why, to me, would have been far preferable, as opposed to an almost incessant plea to be nice to them. Actually humanizing these complex people would have been far more effective in terms of making them less "scary" and more fascinating (and, hence, worthy of courtesy and respect, which seems the author's primary purpose) than just reiterating for several chapters: yes, they dress weird, but please just be nice to them.
For example: Gothic literature, something I'm passionate about and most people who identify with this subculture are as well. What are some of the most well-known works, and what do actual Gothic persons think about them? Why do they identify so strongly with particular elements? In fact, that's really the missing dimension overall: what ACTUAL Gothic people think about anything. It may not have been the point of the book, but there are very few instances of real people actually being represented. I think I would have featured this type material front and center, because it really adds the highly important human dimension. For example, if people are into Edgar Allen Poe, or Algernon Blackwood, or M.R. James, or Mary Shelley, for that matter: why not have a representative talk about their work (briefly) and why it it appeals to persons who identify with this subculture. The same goes for art, music, food/cuisine, decor (it goes SO far beyond than just bats and skulls).
I'm going to include below a passage from the editor of a volume of Late Victorian Gothic Tales, Roger Luckhurst, who hit the proverbial nail on the head. It's also why I think discussing some of the history behind the Gothic subculture would have enhanced this book greatly. To sum up generally, Gothic involves, at its deepest levels, transgression: transgression of the boundaries between life and death, social mores (i.e., its embrace of the morbid), and, particularly, dress and outward appearance, which typically involves rather outlandish elements representing a throwback to the nineteenth century - As Luckhurst states, profoundly, "the insidious leakage of the pre-modern past into the skeptical, allegedly enlightened present. The Gothic, Robert Mighall suggests, can be thought of as a way of relating to the past and its legacies."
I did enjoy it, but as I stated above, I think it was something of a lost opportunity. Even the etiquette material would have been greatly enhanced by some real-world examples and experiences. It didn't need to be a history book, but I think I was disappointed that it didn't have more depth. I know there are other books that do, but, I think I was hoping for something more.
-------------------------------------
"The Gothic repeatedly stages moments of transgression because it is obsessed with establishing and policing borders, delineating strict categories of being. The enduring icons of the Gothic are entities that breach the absolute distinctions between life and death (ghosts, vampires, mummies, zombies, Frankenstein's creature) or between human and beast (werewolves and other animalistic regressions, the creatures spliced together by Dr. Moreau) or which threaten the integrity of the individual ego and the exercise of will by merging with another (Jeckyll and Hyde, the persecuting double, the Mesmerist who holds victims in his or her power). Ostensibly, conclusions reinstate fixed borders, re-secure autonomy, and destroy any intolerable occupants of these twilight zones.
"The most successful monsters overdetermine these transgressions to become, in Judith Halberstam's evocative phrase, 'technologies of monstrosity' that condense and process different and even contradictory anxieties about category and border. Some critics hold that the genre speaks to universal, primitive taboos about the very foundational elements of what it means to be human, yet the ebb and flow of the Gothic across the modern period invites more historical readings. Indeed, one of the principal border breaches in the Gothic is history itself- the insidious leakage of the pre-modern past into the skeptical, allegedly enlightened present. The Gothic, Robert Mighall suggests, can be thought of as a way of relating to the past and its legacies.
We can think about this in fairly abstract ways: the ghost, for instance, is structurally a stubborn trace of the past that persists into the present and demands a historical understanding if it is to be laid to rest. Similarly, Sigmund Freud defined the feeling of the uncanny as the shiver of realizing that modern reason has merely repressed rather than replaced primitive superstition. 'All supposedly educated people have ceased to believe officially that the dead can become visible as spirits', yet Freud suspected that at times 'almost all of us think as savages do on this topic.' This return to pre-modern beliefs was itself the product of thinking of human subjectivity as a history of developmental layers that could be stripped away in an instant of dread, returning us to a 'savage' state.
I think this had a lot of potential, and I get that it's supposed to focus on the etiquette aspects of being Gothic, but I think there was a lot of lost opportunity. I also agree with several of the other reviewers who have likewise reported that the book is highly repetitive and talks a lot, but doesn't say much. I think the current content could have been condensed into one or two chapters on actual etiquette, but it could have gone far beyond that. This could even have been something of an "instruction manual," discussing some "how to's" of being Gothic. I also get that there are many, many subcultures within the umbrella-term "Gothic" subculture, but there are certainly some common elements.
I would also have really liked more of a history, or, at least, incorporating some of the history of the subculture into the material, which would give the added benefit of understanding why this particular group of people gravitate toward particular cultural elements. A more in-depth discussion of the types of things Gothic-identifying people enjoy and are passionate about, and why, to me, would have been far preferable, as opposed to an almost incessant plea to be nice to them. Actually humanizing these complex people would have been far more effective in terms of making them less "scary" and more fascinating (and, hence, worthy of courtesy and respect, which seems the author's primary purpose) than just reiterating for several chapters: yes, they dress weird, but please just be nice to them.
For example: Gothic literature, something I'm passionate about and most people who identify with this subculture are as well. What are some of the most well-known works, and what do actual Gothic persons think about them? Why do they identify so strongly with particular elements? In fact, that's really the missing dimension overall: what ACTUAL Gothic people think about anything. It may not have been the point of the book, but there are very few instances of real people actually being represented. I think I would have featured this type material front and center, because it really adds the highly important human dimension. For example, if people are into Edgar Allen Poe, or Algernon Blackwood, or M.R. James, or Mary Shelley, for that matter: why not have a representative talk about their work (briefly) and why it it appeals to persons who identify with this subculture. The same goes for art, music, food/cuisine, decor (it goes SO far beyond than just bats and skulls).
I'm going to include below a passage from the editor of a volume of Late Victorian Gothic Tales, Roger Luckhurst, who hit the proverbial nail on the head. It's also why I think discussing some of the history behind the Gothic subculture would have enhanced this book greatly. To sum up generally, Gothic involves, at its deepest levels, transgression: transgression of the boundaries between life and death, social mores (i.e., its embrace of the morbid), and, particularly, dress and outward appearance, which typically involves rather outlandish elements representing a throwback to the nineteenth century - As Luckhurst states, profoundly, "the insidious leakage of the pre-modern past into the skeptical, allegedly enlightened present. The Gothic, Robert Mighall suggests, can be thought of as a way of relating to the past and its legacies."
I did enjoy it, but as I stated above, I think it was something of a lost opportunity. Even the etiquette material would have been greatly enhanced by some real-world examples and experiences. It didn't need to be a history book, but I think I was disappointed that it didn't have more depth. I know there are other books that do, but, I think I was hoping for something more.
-------------------------------------
"The Gothic repeatedly stages moments of transgression because it is obsessed with establishing and policing borders, delineating strict categories of being. The enduring icons of the Gothic are entities that breach the absolute distinctions between life and death (ghosts, vampires, mummies, zombies, Frankenstein's creature) or between human and beast (werewolves and other animalistic regressions, the creatures spliced together by Dr. Moreau) or which threaten the integrity of the individual ego and the exercise of will by merging with another (Jeckyll and Hyde, the persecuting double, the Mesmerist who holds victims in his or her power). Ostensibly, conclusions reinstate fixed borders, re-secure autonomy, and destroy any intolerable occupants of these twilight zones.
"The most successful monsters overdetermine these transgressions to become, in Judith Halberstam's evocative phrase, 'technologies of monstrosity' that condense and process different and even contradictory anxieties about category and border. Some critics hold that the genre speaks to universal, primitive taboos about the very foundational elements of what it means to be human, yet the ebb and flow of the Gothic across the modern period invites more historical readings. Indeed, one of the principal border breaches in the Gothic is history itself- the insidious leakage of the pre-modern past into the skeptical, allegedly enlightened present. The Gothic, Robert Mighall suggests, can be thought of as a way of relating to the past and its legacies.
We can think about this in fairly abstract ways: the ghost, for instance, is structurally a stubborn trace of the past that persists into the present and demands a historical understanding if it is to be laid to rest. Similarly, Sigmund Freud defined the feeling of the uncanny as the shiver of realizing that modern reason has merely repressed rather than replaced primitive superstition. 'All supposedly educated people have ceased to believe officially that the dead can become visible as spirits', yet Freud suspected that at times 'almost all of us think as savages do on this topic.' This return to pre-modern beliefs was itself the product of thinking of human subjectivity as a history of developmental layers that could be stripped away in an instant of dread, returning us to a 'savage' state.
Angela E. (necxromantic) reviewed Gothic Charm School: An Essential Guide for Goths and Those Who Love Them on + 7 more book reviews
I'm a little sadden by the reviews of this book. As a proud goth, I see the humor in this. I applaud her for giving some insight on the history of goth and a lot of the references she uses.
To me, I see Venters's message in 3 parts.
First, for up and coming kinder goths {baby bats} on how their behavior does indeed affect 'goth stereotypes'. Such as, that we're all devil worshipers out to cause havoc as the media suggests. But this isn't the case. In fact, she does go into how this isn't true and even refers some positive media to look into so the 'gothling' can decide for themselves.
Second, for well established goths from the 80s {Trad goths}who are very much set in stone with everything being traditional as the scene started. The stereotype being that they are annoyed in pretty much anything that's called 'goth' today and will flip out on 'goth sub-genres'. This in particular, Venters's being the age range of said group, does mention that diversity in the goth subculture can be a good thing.
Third, for parents/friends/room mates of goths. She explains that there are something we do normally like everyone else and then there are just somethings that others may be disturbed by. Like graveyard picnics for example. Although, that would vary upon the goth and goth type. lol
As for the third person thing, it's only a reflection of Jillian's personality in text. All goths are creative in some fashion, it's just of her many talents is being flamboyant as a lady of a neo Victorian does. Plus, she does mention that classic theatrical themed books pulls at her heartstrings, it doesn't surprise me that it would be present in her writing. But rest assured, Venters's does take a break from third person and properly introduces herself.
Lastly, this makes a lovely introduction to goth to new comers. But I would also suggest reading more books along the roots of music subculture as well as d.i.y. ethics, and social aspects. "Paint It Black" and "What Is Goth" by Voltaire, "Goth Chic" by Gavin Baddeley, "The Goth Bible" by Nancy Kilpatrick, and pretty much any book Mick Mercer ever wrote.
To me, I see Venters's message in 3 parts.
First, for up and coming kinder goths {baby bats} on how their behavior does indeed affect 'goth stereotypes'. Such as, that we're all devil worshipers out to cause havoc as the media suggests. But this isn't the case. In fact, she does go into how this isn't true and even refers some positive media to look into so the 'gothling' can decide for themselves.
Second, for well established goths from the 80s {Trad goths}who are very much set in stone with everything being traditional as the scene started. The stereotype being that they are annoyed in pretty much anything that's called 'goth' today and will flip out on 'goth sub-genres'. This in particular, Venters's being the age range of said group, does mention that diversity in the goth subculture can be a good thing.
Third, for parents/friends/room mates of goths. She explains that there are something we do normally like everyone else and then there are just somethings that others may be disturbed by. Like graveyard picnics for example. Although, that would vary upon the goth and goth type. lol
As for the third person thing, it's only a reflection of Jillian's personality in text. All goths are creative in some fashion, it's just of her many talents is being flamboyant as a lady of a neo Victorian does. Plus, she does mention that classic theatrical themed books pulls at her heartstrings, it doesn't surprise me that it would be present in her writing. But rest assured, Venters's does take a break from third person and properly introduces herself.
Lastly, this makes a lovely introduction to goth to new comers. But I would also suggest reading more books along the roots of music subculture as well as d.i.y. ethics, and social aspects. "Paint It Black" and "What Is Goth" by Voltaire, "Goth Chic" by Gavin Baddeley, "The Goth Bible" by Nancy Kilpatrick, and pretty much any book Mick Mercer ever wrote.
Alisa C. (wintermask) reviewed Gothic Charm School: An Essential Guide for Goths and Those Who Love Them on + 22 more book reviews
I expected this book to be light-hearted. While there was a certain amount of self-referential humor, the author does seem to delight in sniping at "mundanes." She also does refer to herself in the third person (although she does call it a "frivolity and affectation" in her introduction), but I believe this is a reference to a well-known newspaper columnist who writes on etiquette and refers to herself in the third person. My main peeve is that the author has really only two pieces of advice to offer, whether one is or is not a Goth: 1) Never assume, and 2) Do unto others as you would have done unto you. All her topics can be neatly distilled into these two maxims. And these are certainly good maxims to pattern your social interactions upon, no matter who you are. My impression is that Ms. Venters expects her readership to be mainly under 20 and requiring much repetition of her main points. However, she does use different topics, such as gossip, parental attitudes towards Goth dressing, and romance, to illustrate her two pieces of advice. She gives solid advice on specific ways to apply the two rules in various settings, and that may be helpful to both a younger audience and an older. As an avid advocate of etiquette and manners, I found one quote particularly effective: "Social conventions do not exist to help us be honest about our feelings. Social conventions exist to ensure civilized behavior so that people don't go trying to strangle each other over coffee." Ms. Venters' book advocates social conventions (or more simply, "manners") in a method entertaining and accessible, particularly for a younger audience. If she were a bit less snarky about non-Goths, her message might be a bit clearer. However, any book that strives to educate about not just the rules of etiquette, but the REASONS manners & etiquette exist, gets a "thumbs up" from me.
Stacie P. (froot) -
This book is snarky! If I wanted a child's point of view on life I would have asked my 4 year old who seems to have better manners than this ranting author.
In this simple guide to everything you ever wanted to know about Gothic culture in today's world, Jillian Venters:the Lady of Manners", attempts to enlighten the nieve and broaden the Goth with proper do's and don't's of the genre .
I would really like to believe that people that chose to follow this way of life are much more vibrant, fun and ecletic than this novel portrays. I am disappointed with the narrow choices given to point the reader to reference particular books, music, social standards etc. Venters often strays from valid points of interest and persists in a rant that the world is against Goths.
I have always loved the energy behind the rebellious idea of straying from social norms, but this book misses key focal points. The most annoying part of this book is the author refering to herself in the third person.
In this simple guide to everything you ever wanted to know about Gothic culture in today's world, Jillian Venters:the Lady of Manners", attempts to enlighten the nieve and broaden the Goth with proper do's and don't's of the genre .
I would really like to believe that people that chose to follow this way of life are much more vibrant, fun and ecletic than this novel portrays. I am disappointed with the narrow choices given to point the reader to reference particular books, music, social standards etc. Venters often strays from valid points of interest and persists in a rant that the world is against Goths.
I have always loved the energy behind the rebellious idea of straying from social norms, but this book misses key focal points. The most annoying part of this book is the author refering to herself in the third person.
