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Topic: Ripped out flyleaf page

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Subject: Ripped out flyleaf page
Date Posted: 10/18/2011 11:28 PM ET
Member Since: 10/2/2007
Posts: 10,282
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Is a ripped out fly leaf page acceptable?  The helps documents muddy it a bit (IMO) in the second bullet point by stating "text pages" - the flyleaf page is clearly not a "text page":

  • No torn or chewed/gnawed pages
    • yes, that does say "chewed/gnawed".  That means no pet-chewed (or human-chewed) books.
  • No loose or missing text pages
    • for travel guide books - maps if designed to be detachable may be detached, but must be included.

I don't think I'd post a book with a torn out flyleaf page, but I'm inclined to accept it and not saying anything to the sender.   The book is in otherwise great condition.   Regardless of what I do with it, I'd like to know what the general consensus is regarding a torn out flyleaf page (sloppily torn out at that).

Last Edited on: 10/18/11 11:30 PM ET - Total times edited: 1
Date Posted: 10/18/2011 11:34 PM ET
Member Since: 8/26/2006
Posts: 9,351
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In my opinion, the fly leaf should not have been torn out, since the rules say "no torn pages."  However if it were sliced out neatly with an exacto blade, it would then become a "missing page", and since it's not a text page, that would be okay.


Date Posted: 10/19/2011 12:51 AM ET
Member Since: 12/28/2006
Posts: 14,177
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What Patty said.  Sometimes there's a name, autograph, or personal information on a fly (or other non-text) page that the PBS member does not wish to forward with the book.  To date, it has generally been accepted that the book is postable if the page is neatly removed...TPTB have not disagreed or issued a clarification.

A sloppy removal, hmmmm....

Date Posted: 10/19/2011 4:08 AM ET
Member Since: 1/17/2009
Posts: 10,130
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If it's a non-text page, then perfectly OK. I would feel just fine about re-posting it again, too.

My library cuts its barcodes out of the insides of their withdrawn books, for some reason. I don't bother removing the remainder of the pages anymore, since I figure if it bothers the receiver, they can do it themselves. But as long as they are not text pages, there ought not be any issues.

Date Posted: 10/19/2011 8:49 AM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,276
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Lots of libraries seem to tear out the flyleaf page, in my experience, and because it is not a text page I just neaten up the tear with an exacto knife -- in past discussions of this very topic in this forum, the consensus has always been that having a flyleaf page removed is acceptable and does not render the book unpostable.

Date Posted: 10/19/2011 10:08 AM ET
Member Since: 10/2/2007
Posts: 10,282
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Thank you for the responses.   I had looked back about 8 pages and didn't find a discussion on this topic - which is why I posted.  When you said there was a general consensus, Sally, I figured I missed something so I looked back further with the search feature.  The most recent discussion (that I found) that discusses a "torn out" flyleaf page was in the spring and in that discussion were links to past discussions  where people disagreed on this issue.  I didn't see a "consensus" at all (even tour guides were divided) - so it seems to be a gray area (or maybe an interpretable condition).  It seems to make a difference to some whether the flyleaf page is torn or trimmed out nicely.  

FWIW, this isn't an ex-library book - though I consider that irrelevant regarding whether the torn out flyleaf is acceptable or not.  IOW, the book is either postable or not, or in some gray area - regardless of whether a library did this or just a previous owner.

I can't neaten the torn out flyleaf in this book.  It was torn back to the glue and, in fact, part of it was torn back so far that the binding is exposed.   I suppose now that I've read some other responses the fact that the binding is exposed may render this book unpostable quicker than the fact that the flyleaf is torn out. 

Links to past discussions:

Regarding a cut-out flyleaf:


Regarding a torn-out flyleaf:

http://www.paperbackswap.com/Missing-Flyleaf-Page/topic/178198/ (this link has even more links)

I marked it "received in good condition" but wrote a comment that I am not pleased that the flyleaf page was torn out and the binding exposed.  This is one of those times I truly hate the new way of marking books received.   If I don't want to mark a book RWAP, I have no choice but to mark it "received in good condition".   I wish I could just mark it "book received" and move along.  It would save me greatly in terms of time and angst about what to write (if anything) to the sender.





Date Posted: 10/20/2011 2:15 PM ET
Member Since: 2/13/2007
Posts: 2,276
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Becki, I was referring to forum discussions that took place years ago -- but PBS clearly states that no text pages can be missing and the flyleaf page is clearly not a text page. As others have mentioned, many people remove that page before sending out because their name and address appears on it, or an inscription. Denise perhaps expressed it better than I did: To date, it has generally been accepted that the book is postable if the page is neatly removed...TPTB have not disagreed or issued a clarification.

Date Posted: 10/20/2011 3:31 PM ET
Member Since: 9/8/2009
Posts: 626
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Be careful no matter what.  I mailed out a book with a removed flyleaf and the receiver RWAP'd it.  I pointed her to the posting guidelines.... She still has not marked it RWAP'd in error.